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Ray Akey | all galleries >> Photo A Day (contains glamour/nudes) >> 2005 >> November 2005 > November 19, 2005: Veneris
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20-NOV-2005 Ray A. Akey

November 19, 2005: Veneris

Windsor, ON Canada

Exploring figure study

Update: This image was featured as a 12" x 18" limited matted and framed print in Detroit, Michigan's "Dirty Show" on Valentine's Week(end) in 2006. The framed print was a success and sold for $125.00, my first cash image sale ever! Thanks again to those who helped shape the events that convinced me to submit this image to the Dirty Show. You all rock!

Canon EOS 20D ,Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
1/125s f/10.0 at 70.0mm iso200 full exif

other sizes: small medium large auto
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Guest 03-Mar-2012 14:34
fablous view,a real true to life picture
Guest 03-Mar-2012 14:34
fablous view,a real true to life picture
Some chap from the UK 26-Dec-2010 14:51
Just my two pennyworth - I do not think this picture is pornographic. (Unless you adopt a very simple definition of pornography.) I don't find it erotic - I find it too abstract to really excite. I also don't find it exploititive or demeaning to women i.e. I don't think Ray is a bad person for taking it, or Sharon a bad person for posing for it.

But I do find it, in a rather strange way, rather beautiful.
Inga Morozoff09-Jan-2010 15:48
~Bravo!
Guest 21-Oct-2009 04:25
Beautiful Picture. F**k all the haters.
oliapassion14-Jul-2009 22:44
Beautiful!
Guest 09-Dec-2008 17:33
The one picture with (by far!) most comments. Nothing unusual here in Europe - very unusual in the States. Congratulations to the model (Sharon) for the courage and the same to the photographer. Hellelujah - more of it!
444 16-Apr-2008 06:59
what the lovely photo . this is very smooth
Guest 01-Mar-2008 05:38
very nice i like it
Sarah 22-Jan-2008 20:11
Sharon? Is that her name?? Bravo.. you are so corageous! I have similar curves to my body and I think they are beautiful.. I admire you! This is quite the photo.. thank you for sharing this!!! Sarah 26
David Band09-Dec-2007 10:25
This a lovely photo of a vagina or "Venus Mondis"
Vaughan Hill 06-Dec-2007 23:53
Absolutely fabulously erotic and artistic female detail. Exciting and stupendous. Do you have any more similar ones ? It's a classic!
Guest 11-Nov-2007 17:49
simply beautiful,this is a very nice picture
duane 28-Oct-2007 05:02
INAPPROPRIATE MY ASS! This is one of the very best images I have seen to date! Where can I buy one like it? I would love something like this!
Howard T 21-Oct-2007 20:46
I find this image pleasing, and I am not at all offended. Well done.
Jonathan 14-Oct-2007 19:49
dang I am like 2 years after you guys reading this I find this picture somehow pleaseing
PDX Alex F. 03-Sep-2007 06:58
to exclude the beautiful form of the human body, both male and female, is going against the true nature of artistic endeavors. to deem a part of the human body offensive is in itself offensive to the artist. are we worried children might see this picture? a picture of a beauty every woman is blessed to have? please think with your brain and not your bible and see things from an artist's perspective.
AML 29-Apr-2007 05:58
This is a great shot. I really am surprised that you got all this censorship nonsense from a photog community.
Guest 14-Nov-2006 13:52
Cutest thing that ive ever seen!!!!
jeff perry 10-Oct-2006 12:25
i love this image
Guest 09-Jul-2006 05:41
My 6 year old son, when looking at this photo with me at first looked puzzled, then smiled. When I asked him what he thought this picture was about, he replied with a huge smile on his face, "It's a Regina!" Heh heh. Considering that's where I'm from (heh aren't we all?), his comment was particularly funny. I did, of course, correct him and tell him the correct name for the subject of the photo.

Hats off to you and your lovely model for posting such excellent works of art. I, for one, have no problem with any of my children seeing this or any other images like this. Well done.
Chris 08-Jul-2006 21:53
Very nice composition; would like to see you experiment with more like this.
WHIP 14-Jun-2006 14:10
YES...
Guest 12-Jun-2006 01:34
I don't get it....why all the fuss over a photo of a sand dune..?
mike robson21-May-2006 09:23
We have to chuckle when the USA goes mad about a nipple uncovered in a pop concert a few years ago (Janet Jackson) and when this photo gets them out with their placards and beating their bibles......
Guest 20-May-2006 08:10
Just a quick comment from a "middle american bible thumper" great picture. I hope that we as a general public in this country (USA) can someday come to accept the beauty of the nude body without such controversy. To all you who are worried about your kids seeing this you do know that the vast majority came through one of these. Sory, my sarcastic side peaked through. If you don't like this picture or ones like it don't look at them, it is as simple as that. Anyways keep up the good work.
Michael Todd Thorpe29-Apr-2006 03:54
Excellent study, well lit and well composed.
I just stumbled on to this 'debate' and good for you standing by your principles.
kyoung kim photography28-Apr-2006 15:35
Beautiful!
Guest 01-Mar-2006 11:51
to all the whining prudes, get a f#$#$ing life. Why do you think you americans are in so deep? because you have (sorry, not all of you) become a bunch of biggoted self righteous prudes. Anyone who can murder innocent people ion the name of their so-called god and finds this offensive is wasting oxygen. take a bloody pill. As for the pic, I will personally show it to my kids as an example of fine art. they were taught about the human anatomy from when they could crawl. WELL DONE. Good luck at the show!
Guest 19-Feb-2006 04:39
I really like this photo, really nice shot !! Too bad we live in a country where the bible thumpers have a lot of pull in both at federal and state level (meaning the USA). Eh, I really prefer the Euros attitudes towards nudity. Middle americans are really pathetic, you can have tons of violence and have guns everywhere, but the nude body, oh my, can't have that.

Good job, nice looking model too, very nice body.
Bart Boodts Photography18-Feb-2006 13:07
Curious that there are still countries in this world that get offended by nudity and more... nudity in art. Crazy world we live in. So, nice picture and I live in a well-openminded country. ;-)
Guest 17-Feb-2006 05:40
yuummmmy.

In all seriousness, thats one balsy...err, verginay photograph there. Nice lighting too.
Guest 14-Feb-2006 15:45
first class
Canadair 29-Dec-2005 01:18
In this image, I see only a very lovely photographic abstract. A fine expression of sheer beauty and form. Congratulations on this and many other an excellent images, Mr. Akey. This image is as relevant as any other photographic expression of the human form. I have seen thousands of other, far less tasteful and less creative images in PBase.
Those that focus on the fact that it is a "picture of genitalia" are simply filthy-minded adolescents who desperately need to grow up or go elsewhere.
Dennis Ricker26-Dec-2005 23:17
Way to go Ray. Congrats on the selection. If people could only distinquish between Porn and Art this site would be much better off. It's not the object of the photo but the way it is protrayed. You are a master of your craft.
Dougie Young20-Dec-2005 11:13
Congratulations Ray a positive Vote and One in Eye for Townsend and friends.
Ray Akey19-Dec-2005 21:18
UPDATE:

To all who like and to those who dislike and continually try to blank this image out or force us to otherwise remove it from public display.. THANKS. As now it will be featured in a well-known erotic exhibition in Detroit, Michigan USA, in February 2006.

Since this image created such controversy here, I submitted it (along with 3 other images) as possible entry for The Dirty Show http://www.dirtydetroit.com) in Detroit, Michigan. I received word back this week that this one "Veneris" has been picked for display and goes up on the wall in the exhibition at The Dirty Show in February 2006.

They will be selling all art that hangs on the wall, so the lucky people attending The Dirty Show will have the option to purchase this image as a 12" x 18" framed print. There is only the one print so if you want it, get there early!

Thanks to all who complained and otherwise made this image a controversy. Your attempts to make this type of image shunned has made it the most popular image in my gallery and if it weren't for that, I probably wouldn't even have entered the image into the Dirty Show.

Cheers to all!
Ray Akey19-Dec-2005 18:41
Some people just can't handle the beauty of the female body. p.zachary must be one of them.

ANYWAY..
Pete 19-Dec-2005 18:05
OFFENSIVE. Please keep the female anatomy private and respected.

Peter
Guest 14-Dec-2005 17:33
Fraser Diggory (pbase supporter) Hey Townsend check this guys galleries out and then try and justify the hasstle and heartache you have caused Ray & Helen you Dickhead. A supporter.
Guest 09-Dec-2005 21:57
Hey, I seemed to be dragged into this whole shit myself... I dont find this image objectionable in the least.
Ray Akey09-Dec-2005 18:37
A fellow pBase member has created a petition to urge the administrators of pBase to reinstate my images to their place in popular photos. Please sign (via response of support) the petition athttp://forum.pbase.com/viewtopic.php?t=16735 if you are against censorship of photography, on pBase.
Ray Akey07-Dec-2005 19:36
Oh, just for the sake of completeness, Townsend made this comment in this forum thread:http://forum.pbase.com/viewtopic.php?t=15932&start=45 towards the bottom.
Ray Akey07-Dec-2005 19:35
For those who are following along, but haven't seen the latest..

Mr. "I can't mind my own business" Townsend has shown his true colours in a response to a post I made regarding renewal of pBase when credits run out.

I had stated that I looked at Smugmug and that they don't seem to have a problem with Nudity that could be seen in an art museum or gallery. So, I plan to test the waters by subscribing for one year to see how restrictive their policies are.

Along comes the nosiest b*stard in the world (for those who can't read between the thin lines, that's Bob Townsend), and posts, "Sure, Ray. Go on over there. Plunk down you money. I think I'll go there too and make sure they enforce their Terms of Service."

But he's only concerned with pBase and doesn't have an agenda, right? Yeah, tell it to someone who believes it, Bob.
Chuck 06-Dec-2005 11:12
Very few are this beautiful or interesting. Nice set of photos.
Chessman2u
Ray Akey05-Dec-2005 18:58
Erich - That's unfortunate and a shame. However, you might be interested to know that this incident has me doing some thinking about my future here. I'll probably keep up my PAD for another year but I am also considering 2 other ways to counter this event..

1 - A book and/or CD of our best photography; probably two, one containing only glamour images and another for the wildlife stuff. It won't cost an arm and a leg either.

2 - Since I am a programmer, I'm considering the creation of a site, FREE FROM CENSORSHIP, where all are welcome to post any content that is legal in the US/Canada (e.g. no child porn or any of that garbage). It will have a clear set of simple rules and no amount of complaining will get images removed unless they violate that clearly stated terms of usage. We'll leave pBase and others for the soccer moms (no offense to them but I don't want to be limited to that only). :)

I'll let you know if and when I begin work on these.
EMangl05-Dec-2005 16:16
if Slug removed all your previous pictures from popular list, it means also that you will never be there again - as it happend to 455rocket and some others. this is highly unfair, may a flash hit Bob in the ass
SRW05-Dec-2005 12:49
Ray -- I agree with you that it's appalling that both this image and all the others you've had voted for have been removed from the most popular list.

I've got to admit this is not my favourite shot of yours; but neither does it offend me or upset me. (Even though us Brits are supposed to be the exception to the European rule, and are supposed to like our sex with the light off...!) And there are images that _are_ pornographic and titillating on the popular list that _really_ deserve the sort of comments that have been thrown at you.

I know you've had lots of support from others; but thought I would add my own tuppence-worth, as well as letting you know that there are probably others out there who've so far kept out of the debate, thinking that this was just a storm in a teacup that would soon be forgotten. Once action is taken (i.e. removing any of your images from the popular photos list), I'm sure that others will feel the need to pop their heads above the parapet.

Whether or not it makes any difference, I've now voted for this image; and I hope others will continue to do so.

Take care...

- $.
Ray Akey05-Dec-2005 11:53
Now I am pissed off. It appears that, because of this lousy complaining suck ass, that ALL of the photos that people have voted on in my galleries have been removed from the popular photos pages. Even this one:http://www.pbase.com/hmetal/image/45931886 which is not objectionable at all.

This is not fair, not fair at all. Thanks a f*cking lot Townsend! Jerk.
Ray :)05-Dec-2005 11:46
Sure is pathetic, Ray. The majority of people who commented here are with you, and not with the spolisports. I hope that you will see that this and some of your other work is put on public display to give it a wider audience.
Ray Akey05-Dec-2005 11:25
It looks like Townsend, the whiner, got his way. The image that has the most number of votes, in the last 7 days, has been removed from the popular photos area, by one of the site moderators or owners. See the forum thread here:http://forum.pbase.com/viewtopic.php?t=16545

Now, let's all go report all the images we don't like and see if anything other than the neighbor's cat photos are left in there.

Pathetic.
Ray Akey05-Dec-2005 05:18
Bill Miller - Yes, we would do this in "public," in as far at least as a public beach goes, where nude sunbathing is allowed. We aren't ashamed of our bodies.

I never claimed my galleries are for family viewing, although members of my wife's family have seen all of our PAD photos as have some of mine. Also, I never read any service agreement, when I gave Slug & Emily my good money, that said this was a family site per se.

Peace and happy viewing.
Ray Akey05-Dec-2005 05:14
Robert Socha - No, that's what smugmug and webshots are for. :)
Guest 05-Dec-2005 04:24
Bill, what would happen to your family if they saw this picture? Would your kids shrivel up and die? Implode? Catch fire? Fall into a coma? Would they be emotionally scarred?

What exactly is it that makes this picture bad for the general public? That's what I want to know.
Bill Miller04-Dec-2005 20:33
I have been wondering what to sat about this since it was uploaded. Today I asked my wife, she thought it looked like a plucked chicken. Not sure whether that adds to the discussion or not but, personally, I think this is better not included in the PAD which has wider 'viewership' than normal galleries. If you consider PAD to be public, as I do, then you apply public rules - would you do this in public? If not, then don't do it here. This does not mean don't do it, just upload somewhere where it people know what to expect, rather than PAD which should be for all. It is because of pictures like this I cannot sit and look at PAD at home with my family and point my friends to PAD, anymore than I would sit and read Playboy with my daughter around. Don't get me wrong, I am not about censorship on PBase or anywhere else but common sense means that there ought to be a separation between areas that are for family viewing (i.e. PAD) and those that are for adult viewing.
Robert Socha04-Dec-2005 19:06
I alraedy wrote what I thought of the photo, now I just wanted to comment on some of the things I'm reading. When was it ever said that Pbase was a site created so people could post their soccer photos, photos for clients to view, etc? The site was created for any photographer and their work, and if anything is to be judged innapropriate, the owner on teh site will do it, not you.
If people want a "safe" nudity free site where you can tell people to go and look at the soccer pics you took, then create your own website and manage it yourself. This site was not built specifically for you and your needs. If you're unwilling to build your own website, then don't complain about this one and what is or isn't allowed to be shown.
Mart 04-Dec-2005 10:00
I've never seen anything quite like this before - mores the pity! Ray, you are one blessed guy. Great model, great image, great!
Ray Akey03-Dec-2005 22:38
Adolfo - Thanks for the opinion but you've made some flawed assumptions.

First, you assume that I want to see plastic skin, which is what you would get if you take away the skin's texture/"prickly" skin.

Second, this image was not taken in "P" mode. P mode is for amateurs. This is full-on manual mode, scene metered with a Sekonic L-358 flash meter, using Alien Bees strobes (B800) to illuminate the subject.

And, finally, this is afar from "random." It took time to get the model in just the right position to have the mons pubis protrude and break the curve of the body's frame, on the upper side.

Thanks for your critique though. Everyone's opinions count and someone learns something in the end. :)
Guest 03-Dec-2005 18:28
Strictly from the execution point of view, I think this subject would have benefited from a way larger aperture (not f/10) to smooth out the "prickly" skin around the vulva (Mons Pubis), using Aperture mode, not P mode. Composition seems a bit random...could be way better considering that the photographer had all the time in the world to take this shot.
Guest 03-Dec-2005 04:05
I would point out to Bill P, Bob T, and anyone else who is worried about kids stumbling across this picture, that you are stupendously and sadly naïve if you don't realise that any healthy child older than about 10 is already actively seeking out nudity online, as they begin to discover and become curious about sexuality. When I was in third grade, I cut pictures of topless women out of "Post" magazine and shared them with my equally curious friends. We didn't understand why we liked them at the time, but we sure liked them. If the WWW existed then, the day I discovered it I would have gone straight to google and typed "tits".

Now at 31 I'm a senior engineer with no criminal record or other seediness in my past - I seem to be quite fine.

If you think your child is somehow not being exposed to nudity and sexual subject matter all the time, you're clueless. So your arguments about this image being out of place because kids are looking for their soccer photos here are just utterly ridiculous.

To the person(s) who say this image "has no place here," I'm afraid only the owner of the site can say what does and doesn't have a place here, and last time I checked, that was Slug, not you.

(And I'm not even going to get started on pointing out how stupid it is to be afraid of your kids seeing a vagina... that's too baffling for me to approach while remaining rational)
Dougie Young02-Dec-2005 17:01
I can't believe how far this debate has gone on over such a great photo. To Bill and others of the same frame of mind, if you tell kids this is soft porn then that is what they will believe and pass that sad attitude on to their children. Keep em comin Ray. Cheers Dougie
Guest 02-Dec-2005 11:04
Well well, how about that.
This may not be the most beautiful/original picture on Pbase (although I do like this shape/lines study a lot), I do think it's among the BEST images on Pbase. Why? Because it clearly makes people think, express their feelings, and show their insides. Taking that into account, this becomes much more than a simple study or a well taken picture. In that respect, the image TOGETHER with all the comments could be seen as one single work of art, representing the moral standards in -face it- the United States mainly.
I can give you an idea to make this an even better work of art. I will do so in private, or else it would already be spoiled. Therefore I won't express all my opinions here. People would probably come and try to kill me.

One thing you should never do: alter this image in any way (or if you do, leave the original here). I hope one day I may be able to make a photo that rocks Pbase too. Fantastic work.
Guest 02-Dec-2005 09:49
I guess everyone expose on this site what we consider art or our best shot, Ray I like the concept of this shot. I didn't see any adverse comments on this onehttp://www.pbase.com/photostyle/image/35039743 . Let's keep doing our best
Ray Akey01-Dec-2005 22:57
Bill - "Why?" Simple. A subject to create a beautiful vision. Whether you, personally, find it beautiful (and I don't judge you either way) or not is personal. That is your opinion, like others. However, that should not change our freedom to post it here.

The plain fact of the matter is, this is not a "dirty" image. This is not something kids should fear. Kids should fear the vultures peering at them from cars and wanting to take them and do perverse things to them.

Most kids have a mother who has the part that is featured here as a study and has now become a topic of sometimes heated discussion and an example of how diverse our worldwide opinions are toward nudity in general. I would think that, as long as you (or their parent(s) does not make a huge issue of it, nor will they. Sure, they'll go "did you see that," but then it will fade and they will be less shocked when/if they see it again. And that's a good thing, leading to a healthy, consentual sexual relationship when they are ready (and not before) to take that big step.
Guest 01-Dec-2005 22:06
And in which way those schoolkids are harmed by this foto, Bill ?
Bill P01-Dec-2005 21:56
Yes the lighting is good, the dof also, ect. But the way I look at it is it's very inappropriate here on pbase. It's judgment like this that pushes our freedom to it's limits. Sure you do have every right to have this picture on here, but why.

It you go to my galleries which I'll use as an example, I sometimes volunteer my time, camera, and skill to take pictures of school events. It might be a high school soccer game, or a third grade play. The kids then go online either at school or home and can see these pictures.

Now the children are on pbase looking for their field hockey picture, they run across this inappropriate image. Now if this were to happen it doesn't make pbase look very good. Kind of brings it down to a porn site, with that soft porn image.

Thanks
Guest 01-Dec-2005 16:05
I'm impressed at the visual beauty of your subject matter. I had the good fortune to visit Erich Mangl in Vienna was fascinated at the nudity displayed on the walls of the subway below ground, in store windows and on television and particularly how it was as ignored as if it were an ad for silverware. It was a commentary on how nudity is viewed here in the U.S. Kudos to your beautiful image!
Ray Akey01-Dec-2005 08:49
I should mention that Mr. Townsend has continued his apparent agenda over at my Blog http://hmetalsblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/sexual-freedom.html) and has totally twisted the order of events.

I find it quite interesting that, for someone who wants this image hidden away, Mr. Townsend has now cross-posted a link to it in pBase's discussion forums http://forum.pbase.com/viewtopic.php?t=16545) in an attempt to generate unrest and outrage with the pBase community. I guess I should take this time to thank him for doing the exact opposite and stimulating additional interest, activity and attention to my gallery.
Robert Socha01-Dec-2005 06:25
Nice dof, I think you got that perfectly right. The black background's a nice choice and the lighting is pretty good. Not perfect, but not bad either at all. Duotone might be nice, or a dark B&w. Great photo.
Ray Akey01-Dec-2005 05:37
Jeanne - Thanks for the comments and valid criticism. I will probably try this one again in B&W and with a slight gaussian blur on the skin to remove the stubble and smooth out the skin texture just a tad, enough to create a subtle glow.

As for the hit count, it is not the most hit image in my collection but as of this moment in time it has received 10,788 hits. My gallery in whole is just short of 2 million hits.
Guest 01-Dec-2005 05:01
Crikey! I didn't know the mons pubis came in /Grande Supremo/. Nice shot.
Guest 01-Dec-2005 04:10
well now it's number one...

I have been reading the debate. I am NOT against nudity at all. And I DO think the lighting is good here.

What I find to be the major flaw? If I can say so? Is the stubble. Either from shaving or waxing? But you can see the little follicles of hair and to me that makes this less sexy. I KNOW real woman have hair...but for some reason my eye goes immediately to the follicles and I am not seeing the rest of the image.

As for all the talk of whether it's appropriate, I am against censorship in anyway, so I have no problem with that part of it at all. Though filters might be a good idea to have in place, like they have on Photosig, so people who DON'T want to have this pop up at them can filter it out.

Curious, what's the hit count on this one?

And I don't mean my comment about the stubble ina mean way at all. To ME that just takes the artistic impression down a ....(dare I say) hair? LOL!!
Ray :)30-Nov-2005 23:54
Ray: I usually pass your photos by as I see 'just another nice shot of Sharon', but I must say that this one is superb. To my mind it more to do with the lighting, and fact that the subject matter is not normally shown here. It is so refreshing and rewarding to find new angles and subject matter and then photograph them so well.
Its good to see so many people here that are so supportive of this image, and the debate here has shown the chasm between American and European cultures, even though us photographers tend to be a trifle more broad minded on both sides of the pond.
Incidentally, I bought a copy of 'Photography Monthly' here in England today - it featured a very tasteful picture of a naked man and woman and was avaialble for all people to pick up.
Some people don't know the difference between art and porn.
Ray
Ray Akey30-Nov-2005 23:00
You're wrong, Bob. When this photo was posted, it was not "just in this gallery." It was, since this gallery is marked as a PAD gallery, displayed as a thumbnail in the PAD Meta Gallery .

As far as children seeing it, I wouldn't shun my children away from such (and yes, I am a father). I would, however, explain to them about cultures and how in Europe and other more permissive societies, nudity is not the bad thing that our North American society has made it, in order to protect their insecurities.

Anyways, I loathe the idea of being politically correct just to please everyone. The phrase, "you can't please 'em all," comes to mind here. Personally, I don't think we should try to please everyone. I believe in being inately unique.
EMangl30-Nov-2005 19:47
now it gets funnier with every posting, bob - so you are worry that someone sees you looking at naked stuff at work, but nobody says a word that you are not doing your job anyway ? :-)

and, about children: my daughter, Dascha, 4 1/2, saw the photo too and all she said was "bissa" (that's her name for it) - she was not shocked, not confused, saw it as something she knows and that's it
Bob Townsend30-Nov-2005 19:29
Ray, first I didn't vote for it. I came upon it only today and only after going to the popular photos page. I was surprised to see it and was glad I was at home and not at work when I did. I now must be more careful when viewing anything on Pbase and that is a shame. Had someone at work seen that on my computer, I could have been fired. I have no problem with viewing adult material but I do it in the privacy of my own home in the time and place of my choosing. I did not get a choice nor did hundreds of other people today.
Bob Townsend30-Nov-2005 19:11
Then how many of you think this is appropriate for children to see? Should we not also be sensitive to those who choose not to see or choose not for their children to see such material? My problem is not with the subject matter but instead in where it is displayed. When it was originally posted in this gallery, the gallery had a warning on it. Those who entered, did so knowing that there would be nudity. I have no problem with that. No such warning was given to all who simply wanted to see the most popular photos. I would like to see something similar to the treatment of American Politics applied to this type of material when it becomes popular. Everyone should have a choice here. It is the only way to be fair to everyone here at Pbase.
Ray Akey30-Nov-2005 18:49
Erich - I think those "I don't want my kids to see that," people should worry more about their kids growing up thinking sex is bad, or discovering sexuality in the WRONG way.

I'll give you an example of what happens and how parents like this can really harm their kids. I don't know if you've read or heard about this story, but give this link a readhttp://680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20051117_132243_8688).

This is the kind of thing that happens when parents hide sex, and its good and bad points, from their children. I blame the parents 100% in this situation. If these sexually repressed (or repressive) parents weren't so darned afraid of sexuality, these incidents wouldn't happen. This teen's mother looked out into the garage earlier in the evening, saw the two teens in the car and then LEFT THEM THERE. I mean, come on lady. You know what they're doing in the car, you didn't see/hear it running? If that were my kid, I would have called them inside and told them to go and "talk" in his (or her) room, not in a running car, in the garage.

I mean, what is better? Knowing your teenager is having sex in a car, where it is cold and chance death to carbon monoxide poisoning or in a room where there is heat, comfort and safety as result of TALKING to them previously about sex (eg. when they ASK about it) and having them practice safe sex.

...but I digress. The bottom line: TALK to your kids about sex, when they bring it up, don't HIDE it from them.
Ray Akey30-Nov-2005 18:35
Bob Townsend - So, you liked the image and voted for it, but now that others have voiced (and shown, by voting) a similar liking for the image, you don't like it? I really don't believe that but that's how it sounds. What are you afraid of? That it's popular? That someone might see it? The moment it was posted people could see it. The "don't click" mentality still applies. The thumbnail, even though in the popular photos section, is still the same size as before. That the image got that many votes validates it as art, IMHO.

Personally, I don't feel it is a problem and don't think anyone needs to make it a problem. It is a body part photographed artistically. It is art, period.

As for "dealing with it," I don't know what you expect of me but I'm not the kind of guy that has regrets once I've made a choice, as most of my choices have always served a good purpose, as this one has. It is good to stimulate discussion about how stifled our sexuality is in this world of "oh my, did you see that?!?"

I say to the prudes, "Get over it!" (and no, I don't mean you Bob. This is mostly just commentary to those who might make more out of this image that art). I won't be removing or otherwise moving this beautiful image.
EMangl30-Nov-2005 18:04
"it's about to become a problem" ? haha - only for those who have big problems with their own sexuality.
or maybe a problem for the "oh oh, my kids don't need to see that"screamers ?

the world is full of problems, if all other problems are solved people can care about it if this photo is appropiate on pbase or not

Bob Townsend30-Nov-2005 13:49
I really liked this shot all the way up to the point where 15 (and counting) people voted for it. It has now come out of your gallery which had all the appropriate warnings and has made it front and center in Pbase's popular photos page where no one gets a warning. The "Don't Look" rationale no longer applies here. It's courageous. It's erotic, but now it is about to become a problem, I fear. I trust you and/or Slug will deal with it in a responsible way that will appeal to all here at Pbase.
Dougie Young30-Nov-2005 08:05
I clicked, I looked, I enjoyed, and I voted. Classic shot Ray, well done Sharron. Cheers Dougie
Guest 29-Nov-2005 13:22
I've been following this debate 'The battle of the Bulge', with interest. The previous Battle resulted in 200,000 deaths!
Hodero29-Nov-2005 10:37
more...."Mons Veneris" of the 4th cathegory.
Great shot.
Guest 28-Nov-2005 21:01
It is beautiful, and worthy of many images. Voted. Perfection does not need to apologize for itself.
Guest 26-Nov-2005 02:00
Great work Ray. I have seen allot of your work over at P.O.T.N., and see no reason why people should complain about this particular photo. It takes a lot of guts to do a shot like this and I applaud you both for putting together a very well done photograph.
Bob Floyd25-Nov-2005 17:40
Well done! Both brave and beautiful. Anything that causes this much response can't be wrong. After all, photography should be moving and judging from the comments here lots of folks have been moved.
Robert 24-Nov-2005 23:34
Impressive.. Love her photos
Guest 24-Nov-2005 20:43
Dan where do you live? I would love to pose for you. Sounds like fun :)
Mattias Backström24-Nov-2005 18:29
Wow... What can I say? A very interesting photo.
Robert 24-Nov-2005 16:14
Impressive.. Love it..
Ray Akey24-Nov-2005 09:53
Dan - Heh, thanks. I'm sure she'll read your comment in the morning. She has posed nude, recently, for a fellow local photographer that we met at an arts exhibition. Of course, I attended the shoot. :)

By the way, I just had to blog this, after all this controversy. http://hmetalsblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/sexual-freedom.html
Dan Chusid24-Nov-2005 08:49
If Edward Weston were still alive and photographing Charis Wilson,
you can be sure they would have covered this angle and even possibly
in color as you've done.

Seems rather tame to me in comparative relation to it's historical
photographic brethren.
- DC

PS: There's always room for Sharon in my studio when she tires of your
visions Ray.
;^)
Guest 24-Nov-2005 08:34
great
Guest 24-Nov-2005 06:41
Very erotic picture. Very tastefully done. I am not sure what the problem is with this picture. It is a very nice one of a very nice vagina. Why are we such prudes when it comes to naked bodies? It isn't like xxx porn or anything. Just nudity.
Richard Devine24-Nov-2005 02:18
Ray and Sharon, I've been mostly absent from Pbase for a while, but I do stop in from time to time to see what some of my favorite photographers have been doing. This image has gotten quite a stir. I believe it has been very well done and applaude your bravery in posting this. I think the greatest problem here is that a large percentage of the people of Pbase are from the United States where all of Europe's prudes moved to so many years ago. I think it is far more shameful that there are so many people who wish to censure this and tell me what I am or am not allowed to see. There is so much beauty in the female form (both Sharon's and Wanda's photos attest to that). Both you and Bill have always been VERY tasteful in all of your photography. It is my sincere hope that your works are not censured by pbase or the 'moral minority'. Keep up the great work and ignore the rude comments.
Ray Akey24-Nov-2005 00:28
Accident scene? Let's be clear here. This was MY vision and an intended one.

The "accident scene" comment reminds me of an Insane Clown Posse song called "How Many Times?"

"How many times will I sit in a hot car?
Traffic jam, been sittin' for a [bleep]in' hour
Must be an accident, I hope nobody died
Finally get there, and the crash is on the other side
The gawkers roll and they creep slow
Hoping they can see a mangled body show
Some park, and stand there and watch it all
With their kids, they point, and [bleep]in stare (and just look)
I remember one time I was pulled over
Handcuffed, the cop was like, show's over
People watching, hoping that he shoots me
I just wanted to choke their [bleep]ing head"

I don't know how someone can compare this beautiful sight to an accident scene or even to a colonoscopy. Maybe they're the people whose parents wrongly taught them that sex is bad and that they should shun nudity and live in shame of their own bodies.

Ah well.. leaves us something to hope for the future, that people become comfortable with their own sexuality or that they may at least learn to accept that others are not necessarily inclined to, nor should they necessarily, live by the sexually repressive perspective of others.
Guest 24-Nov-2005 00:27
Geesh what is all the fuss about. You don't like it, don't look. I would understand it if I was spread eagle and showing some pink but this is a side view and I think very tastefully done. Otherwise it would be in the password gallery. Some people have to stop seeing nudes at pornagraphy. Two very different things.
Eric Hewis23-Nov-2005 23:28
Mr Mangl, you are right, It's like an accident scene, you don't want to look but you can't help yourself.
EMangl23-Nov-2005 12:09
people like Hewis crack me up - says "one to delete" but comes back to give another comment (and who knows how much more looks)

will wear today my t-shirt saying "people are stupid" ;-)
PhotoMdB 23-Nov-2005 07:19
Great shot... tried a couple of those and they are most alusive of creating 'a beautiful' photo! You should have started with a 'spread' version, and then nobody would have complained about this one. GREAT photo. If the subject is a dustbin or a private part... it is just that - a subject. Keep up the great work and give us more of those! Remember, if you don't want to see... DON'T CLICK!!!
Jack 22-Nov-2005 08:14
Great picture. The composition is outstanding. All the complaners need to STOP COMPLANING!!!!! If I am not mistaking, the page title says "Ray's Photo A Day (may contain glamour/nudes/erotica)". Did you catch the last part folks? I'll repeat it for those that missed "nudes/erotica)". Last time I checked nudes included the area in question. As long as it is done in an artistic manner post a million more. Now if there only was a way to artisticly display a colonoscopy in spite;p Great pictures. It is always a pleasrue to see you displaying your photography skills NO MATTER WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER IS.

Urbana Buck 22-Nov-2005 04:29
Absolute beautiful and nice picture.
MacPhot21-Nov-2005 19:13
It is interesting isn't it? The controversy I mean. The image is well executed and certainly up to Ray's standards. The mere fact it is of Sharon's nether regions causes all this fuss??! Come on! As said below, click or don't click. The prurient (spelling!?) will always come out to voice their opinion but they could have chosed not to click eh.

I was trying to resist getting sucked in to commenting on this for fear of swelling the massed ranks! But, at the end of the day it has done the job! Discussion has ensued and for every one person who likes any given image there will be another who doesn't. Nudity is no big deal for most of us on the planet. That said Ray, I am going to say that I do actually prefer other shots in preference to this one based purely on artistic value but I love the results of this picture. Regards.
Guest 21-Nov-2005 14:01
Nicely done, Ray. I love both your treatment of the image, and the general uproar it has caused.
kej21-Nov-2005 13:29
What's all the uproar? So much ado about nothing. There is no policy about nudity. This isn't about porn or shock and awe. It's about the use of light. Very well done I might say as well. Bravo Ray.
Guest 21-Nov-2005 12:45
Simple and to the point---The Source of Life and all pleasure.
William G. Mancebo21-Nov-2005 08:32
Sorry to comment twice. I do believe that we are all empowered to click, or not to click, in order to view an image. I'll never understand why someone would choose to view something, when fully aware of the content, and then complain?

Each artist holds their own visions. Like them or not, I want to view them all. I feel that if I limit my exposure to others creativity while basing the exposure level on what current postures of society deem "dirty". I then limit the inspirations that they can provide to me...

Just my .02
Guest 21-Nov-2005 05:38
Just beautiful - well done Ray and Sharon
Jim McKinlock21-Nov-2005 01:37
Wow, I don't stop by for like 24 hrs. and look at all the excitement I've missed. Not sure what all the fuss is about, half the population has one of these, and the other half thinks it's beautiful. Keep up the good work Ray and Sharon.
grafix7221-Nov-2005 00:39
Very nicely done....I personally think it was very tasteful. The human body body, especially the female version, is an amazing world of curves and I think you have captured it very well.
Sam Stevenson21-Nov-2005 00:38
Nicely done image, if somewhat controversial.
J.T. ST. Clair 21-Nov-2005 00:10
All art can be what ever the viewer see's. That's why some paintings sell for a million,
and some you can't give away ( thats why we have E-bay ).I my self think it's just OK.
Needs something ( sepia ) maybe. I do enjoy you photos, wish I had time to do a photo a day.
Guest 21-Nov-2005 00:05
The feelings about nudity in this country blow my mind. It is the same as drinking. In Europe where drinking and nudity are commonplace they are ignored, not gawked at. A laundromat in Cannes, France had paintings of a naked woman washing her clothes in a bucket on the side of the building, this was across the street from a school.

The magazine Seventeen, literally has topless teenagers in it.

Your body is natural, the clothes you wear are not.

If you cannot wrap your head around that I am sorry.

Ray, great pic, amazing perspective. Very artful.
Cryto 20-Nov-2005 23:39
Ok, everyone is fine with breasts, but show the pubic area and everyone goes nuts? Sheesh. While I wouldn't think Ray would have posted this here, I don't see why people are so up in arms about it. Sharon is beautiful, and has great curves, so why get mad about one type versus another? I suppose age and maturity level aren't the same after all.
Guest 20-Nov-2005 23:18
ay
Saw image first thing when there was no comments. Back now and there is a plethera of opinions. Personaly I think the picture is extremely clever. Art in every form is there to stir ones emotions and thoughts, wether its a painting, sculpture, a play or an opera we all view the experience differently. Nice one.

Thanks

Peter, Uk
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 23:01
Gary (Blanchette) - The neck or the elbow, or the knee.. All of these has been done before and, after examination, don't have quite the same shapes nor lines, for valleys as the subject here. If you can show me otherwise (both in this perspective and proof using a more wide image of the same object/subject), I'll give you a grand tip of the hat.

As for suitable, well.. that's all opinion and relative to our own minds. It's irrelevant to me.

Regarding your choice of words for this part of the female anatomy, I've no problem with that. It shows your line of thinking, which speaks for itself. :)

Regarding laws, that's up to Slug to deal with. Again, I know quite a number of people who would look elsewhere to post there images if Slug changed the posting requirements to outlaw nudity in PAD or on pBase in general. But, as I have stated before, I'd have no problem if Slug required us to tick a checkbox stating that this "image contains sexually related material" when uploading glamour/nude/figure images. Then the PAD meta-gallery can display a placeholder for the image stating the same thing, allowing the image to still "appear" in PAD but the browser would have to click the "this image may.." thumbnail, to see the actual image.

By the way, I don't do this for "attention." I do this because it is my passion. I have more graphic images that would do it far better if that was my intention.
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 22:53
Enrique - Yes an no. It is "that big" but only when the pelvis is pushed out. See, I wanted the middle curve to "break" the top line, to create a mountainous effect.

Trust me, this was not an easy image to capture. The body had to be positioned ever so perfectly with the model holding the pose long enough for me to say "turn this a bit, hold that this way, now hold it... hold it.. [CLICK].

In the end, it came out exactly as intended, and for that I'm glad. The worst thing for a photographer is when there's an image in his or her head but they can't express it, whether by not having the subject available or by not being able to "connect" what is in the mind with the model's position and placement.
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 22:45
John (Buffin) - It seems as though you're right about the controversy. Ah well, I've got big shoulders and have taken worse criticism from more experienced people regarding more important things than the choice of subject (namely, bad lighting, awkward pose/perspective/placement, etc). ;)

The funny thing is that Sharon and I were visting a 35 year photography veteran today and showed he and his wife this image. He liked the image and saw in it exactly what was intended. He apreciated it for what it is, a study of lines and curves which just so happens to be the female pubis. However, he did note that there are forces out there who would probably deride me/us for the image. His suggestion was the same as yours, which is what I had thought about but decided against last night/this AM.

I thought, this AM, about a gaussian blur and blowing the image out, while retaining the dark, shadowed areas, to give it more of a line drawing effect. For some reason I didn't. Perhaps I'll take a stab at that later and post it in the PAD Extras area. since I don't like to post the same image/perspective twice. :)

Thanks for the compliments.
Guest 20-Nov-2005 22:40
That is a magnificent work of art - both the model and the image.
Sharon, you are a woman, extraordinaire.
Eric Hewis20-Nov-2005 22:25
I've looked again, I'm sorry, but to me it looks like an oven ready turkey.
Dave Beedon20-Nov-2005 20:38
Nice topography!
Gary Blanchette20-Nov-2005 19:09
I agree Ray, my choice of comparisons was extreme, for that I apologize. So let me ask you this. If the whole purpose behind the image was to use lighting to capture simple lines and curves, why not the neck area, or maybe the elbow, knee, or even arm pit? All suitable areas to perform the job, right.

I believe the use of Sharon's Puss (sorry for being so blunt) was nothing more (and like you said we are all entitled to opinions) than a way to attract attention. And this I believe we can both agree on, you have done well.

I'm not sure what, if any, the rules, laws what have you, are governing images like this online but I do know that many if not most of the sites that contain nudity, (showing less than you have) have disclosures stating that 13 and under must stay away. I would be naive to think that they do, but also know that Slug may have to resort to such a thing if images like the one you posted this morning becomes the norm on PBase.
Enrique20-Nov-2005 18:17
I personally don't have a strong feeling about the image - it is what it is. My wife asks, is it supposed to be so big? The curvurture and lines seem disproportunate. Are we missing something?

Otherwise - rock on! Your choice of art, photography, viewpoint - beauty is in the eyes of the viewer.
John Buffin20-Nov-2005 18:17
I tell you Ray and Sharon, this caught my eye big time, as I'm sure it did everyone else.
I think the lighting tells the story here. The angle of light gives so much depth and shape to her pubic mound, I never noticed her having such a pronounced shape down there before.

There's no way around the controversy, other than to give the photo a gaussian blur and make it seem less life-like and more a study of light and form. But I respect your vision and give my hats off to Sharon's bravery.
Indecent Exposure20-Nov-2005 17:22
The social taboo against nudity. While in Western society nudity has typically been a taboo.

Countless paintings of nude women are deemed masterpieces for presenting the “glory of the female form.” However, when the issue of artistic nude photographs of women comes up today, it is deemed inappropriate and controversial.

The nude has been a constant and enduring theme in North American art despite our country’s Puritan beginnings. The nude remains an important subject in contemporary art, despite current conservative influences.

There is nothing "pornographic" about this picture.

It is a classic study of the human form and line.
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 16:56
Gary - Not necessarily, no. However, like yours, it is my opinion. Opinions are a good thing that lead to discussion. Discussion is healthy. I wouldn't want Slug changing the rules to suit my opinion, but we are allowed to state them. What I intended in my last comment to you was purely what was stated.. **I** wouldn't want to see that in PAD. However, I have no right to tell others what they can or cannot put in PAD. If they did, I would simply skip over it for that day, if they hit a subject I disliked.

Rather than be pedantic about the intention of my choice of words, let's stick to discussing (or not discussing if that's your choice) the image itself.

Rather, what on earth makes you think that this image is even CLOSE to a colonoscopy? I mean, how extreme to even compare this to that. Do you always think of colonoscopies when you see the curves of a woman? :)

I just don't get it..
Gary Blanchette20-Nov-2005 16:37
That, my friend, *would* be distasteful.

So is this to say you are the one drawing the line on tasteful and distasteful?
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 16:30
Gary - Let's not get carried away, okay? There are no "openings" showing here and, personally, I wouldn't want to see anyone's anal opening in PAD. That, my friend, *would* be distasteful. For you to infer I would do such is insulting.
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 16:28
papjim - No offense intended but I paid my dime (actually more like 100s of dimes) and there is no policy against nudity on pBase or against nudity in PAD. I suspect if Slug ever did so, he'd lose a lot of paying customers, but I digress.

In any case, I figured there would be some complaints when I viewed this image as I thought a few others might, but you've heard about caution and the wind, right? :)

You are allowed to complain, after all your right to voice your opinion is as important to me as is mine to display what I consider a beautiful art image.

Let me state right here that you will never see "pink" in my PAD. This is skin and nothing more. Arousing? Sure. Dirty, ugly, pornographic? NO!
Ray Akey20-Nov-2005 16:23
James (Lundy) - Yeah, I know, and I agree. However, I'm not bothered by PAD'ers complaining. If my artistic vision stirs discussion, then that's a good thing.

As for the image itself.. One should view this image with an artistic eye and pay more attention to the lines and curves (rather than complaining about the particular subject itself). See the beauty that life has created rather than the taboo object into which society has turned this particular subject.
Eric Hewis20-Nov-2005 16:13
One to delete
farmergiles20-Nov-2005 15:43
Beautiful, good shot of venus rising ;-), I would move the image to the gallery where this quality can be appreciated and hopefully added to.
Giles
Guest 20-Nov-2005 15:21
Every morning, I eagerly visit your PAD page and a picture like this is one reason why it's all worth it! Thanks!
Mark Bishop 20-Nov-2005 15:16
Courageous picture ! Those curves of the most intimate part of our dear Sharon are simply wonderful and captured by Ray in a artistic manner. Don't pay attention to the whining, you're doing a real good work. Congratulations to you both !
Guest 20-Nov-2005 14:42
This is not so brave or artistic. You've come close before, this time you crossed the line. Officially, I'm whining. This picture has no place here.
Indecent Exposure20-Nov-2005 14:10
Artistic, is the key word. As artists, we can appreciate the human female form as a beautiful photographic subject, Well done.
James Lundy20-Nov-2005 11:06
Woah, brave post. Ya know PAD folks are gonna raise all hell about this. But I say let em whine. "But my kids come to this site to see the PAD of our kitty or our new born or our whatever mondane thing". To them I say get over it, it is a PHOTOGRAPHY site. We all have different limits.
Guest 20-Nov-2005 09:48
Nice Hollywood.
William G. Mancebo20-Nov-2005 08:58
Not too sure how to comment on this one. Must be well done, cause I sure like it! B^)...
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