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Istanbul election fun 2004 03 14

Istanbul election fun 2004 03 14

This girl was one of the electioneers that went on the election trail with the minibus in the previous picture. She is making a victory sign. She was pleased with the picture, so am I. But I ain't got her address.

People have repeatedly written that she is campaigning for the PKK. I don't know, she was in a crowd surrounding a bus from another party, and seemed to belong to the group travelling with that bus. I have this on film. People have claimed that by showing the picture I support terrorism. I hate terrorism, and in my mind those people are wrong. Also people have written that since she supports the PKK she is not a Turk. People who write this have a different definition of what a Turk is. People have demanded I'd remove the picture. I will do no such thing: a photographer takes pictures of what he sees, and publishes them. I try to show the country and if there is division in the country I may show it (I am not seeking it). No one ever complained about pictures of a Çiller support meeting that I took pictures of.

People who write comments to this picture that call me a liar, a supporter of terrorism, or other things contrary to what I wrote above will see their comment deleted as soon as I spot it. So don't bother.

What struck me is no one ever wrote in support of my showing the picture. For some freedom of the press pictures, take a look at World press photo's.


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Cetin Kavcioglu 17-Feb-2007 15:14
I like your pictures a lot. I especially I like the pictures of people you take rather than buildings, art, etc. If some of your pictures stir up some political issues, so what. These are problems that need to be solved and not ignored.

Regards Cetin
Guest 28-Aug-2006 14:11
renas. how do you know these?
and
do you know how many Kurdish origin people live in a peaceful environment in Turkiye and do you know how many of them were and are in the most important posts including presidents, prime ministers, generalship etc.? i am sure you know non of them.
the people like you is trying to distort the peauciful environment in Türkiye...

leaving these aside, thank you Osseman for your nice study.
renas 26-Aug-2006 11:43
did everybody who writes nationalist comments know that the armed forces of Republic of Turkey burned 5.000 Kurdish villages and hundred thousands people had to migrate to the other parts of the world ? one more thing, did they know that despite of all Kurds want peace and brotherhood? Is demand of peace and brotherhood terrorism,otherwise things that The Armed Forces of Turkey did ? Thank you well Mr. Osseman, for your all great studies..
Dick Osseman12-Aug-2006 14:52
Thanks, Turk.

And, since I sometimes censure people for their bad English: the phrase in my earlier comment on this page should have read "...into the bargain". I don't want to teach you bad English, folks.
Turk. 12-Aug-2006 11:20
Dear Osseman, I ve got a friend Stefan german, he is great aducatied, has been in Turkey many times as u were. We call him as Osman because he wants that. He takes many photo in every his visiting, loves our traditions, foods, people. We have had a dinner yesterday in prague, i ve sneezed and he said in turkish "jok yasha!"
God bless u. Çok yaşa. We do nt use theese words just for sneeze. However we scream çok yaşa for our flag, glorious history, republic of TURKİYE.
We love colours in fact u know it. Colours in the life, on carpets, in fire flowers ceramics, in skins of people, in many local traditions, in the sea from Kuşadası.. Blue, white, black, red, yellow, green.. But on flag we love just red and white in our territory. Nothing another. I ve born opened my eyes to this two colours.. my father was same as well.. his father also..
Territory. Ask those people in ur picture what is the Turk's territory and what is yours. U hear many different replies even they do nt have their own ideas. Ask me or many millions who were born as me. We answer just one same and absolutely same reply. That is why u would travel there in safety enjoy ur time and takes photo whereever you want.
Thanx for this great gallery i like it. We welcome you..
Turk.
Dick Osseman12-Aug-2006 10:52
....and Dutch people, and Chinese people, and British people, and Indonesian people, and Turkish people: I like people, and many of them - not all - deserve admiration.

I think D (who claims the mail address is dd@hotmail.com, I won't even try to answer, because it will turn out to be fake) does not admire many people. I pity him/her.

I so dislike people who cannot write an opinion, just innuendo. I think that people who just suggest opinions rather than express them cannot think properly, they cannot "make a point". They have a feeling this or that is true, but are not certain, so they use these silly "I think this or that" constructions: not making clear what they think really, just suggesting. I certainly don't admire those people.

And they write bad English in the bargain.
D 12-Aug-2006 09:43
I THINK DICK OSSEMAN IS AN ADMIRER FOR KURDISH PEOPLE.
Bora 11-Aug-2006 11:57
Mr. Osseman,
This is non of my business to treat to you like a fool, and of course, nor is yours. My critisism does not include any insult and I respect to your field. As far as I understand you like my country.
Let's say "forget about my critisism and just look at the picture. ok?
So, I very clearly and simply say that what I see in this picture is the symbol and agitation of a terorist organization from which my country is suffering. So what is my denial here? This is a matter of choice to publish or not such a photo. However, there may be a danger of involuntery advertisement of violence while publishing.
Did you ask the girl "what is the meaning of the victory sign for them?"
May be "division" (the word which may cause so many controversy).
Thanks...
Dick Osseman11-Aug-2006 10:00
I have the feeling I may be barking up two separate trees: Bora and an anonymous guest. If B is Bora: I like your country a lot too (after all, what is the use of visiting it for the 35th time and not liking it). But I get fed up with criticism that does not consider my other comments, and treats me like a fool.

You may note I added a lot of text to an earlier short message that I deleted.
Dick Osseman11-Aug-2006 09:56
No,

You are not in a dream but in denial. This is a term from psychology - my field - and you may want to look it up before you explode. Then you may explode, for all I care.

And: since you make a point of my use of the word "division": if you had read my statement carefully you would have seen that I wrote "if there is a division in the country, I may show it". Now, of course I come from a country where, if the state proclaims by law that there cannot be a division, we know that this is just law. Laws do not create or make unity nor division. They may help, if they are used wisely. But my point is: I use an "if" clause, and you lecture me as if I wrote a thing like "I show the divisions in this country". It is not just the word division that is difficult (thank you for pointing this out, one so easily uses a word without knowing its proper meaning, but having just looked it up I now think I know), it is the use of language that is difficult in itself. I have the strong feeling that you can do with some training in that field, might you still be in high school or a student?

The "if" clause, to help you a bit in your studies, is one of "modality": in logic, the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content. Modal logic, which studies the logical features of such concepts, originated with Aristotle, was extensively studied by logicians in antiquity and the European Middle Ages, and, for the most part, was neglected after the Renaissance until revived in modern mathematical logic. The basic statement on this subject, presupposed in most contemporary discussions, is by C.I. Lewis andCooper Harold Langford in Symbolic Logic (1932), which develops a modal system of “strict implication” for interpreting the logical force of “if . . . then.” This is from the Encyclopaedie Brittitanica and some of my other critics tell me this is also a partisan source.

Life is difficult, ain't it?
Guest 11-Aug-2006 09:45
Sorry for repeat...
B 11-Aug-2006 09:44
Mr. Osseman,
I like my country very much... So I am just trying to give the truth of my country...
Thanks...
B 11-Aug-2006 09:44
Mr. Osseman,
I like my country very much... So I am just trying to give the truth of my country...
Thanks...
B 11-Aug-2006 09:44
Mr. Osseman,
I like my country very much... So I am just trying to give the truth of my country...
Thanks...
Guest 11-Aug-2006 09:18
Mr. Osseman,
You are just trying to make the situation to be vanished and to cause the people to forget the facts.
I am speaking about a terrorist organization and this picture of the girl who is wearing the symbolic colors of that TERORIST ORGANIZATION and making the victory sign ("of what?"). This attitute of you do not comply with your own words "i hate terrorism". I am just trying to explain that the color of girl making victory sign symbolizes a terrorist organization not simply a political party. This is also your choice to show the photo symbolizing a terrorist organization and also hate terrorism at the same time.
You talk about division. As it is stated in the Constitution of Türkiye (legal statement not a statement of a newspaper), Turkey is not a divided country but unitary one. This simply means that Turkey is not a divided country and also mean that your comment is fully wrong or you do not know the meaning of division. It is not an easy word to be used. So I am just saying "Search and be happy". All thing written in the articles in the newspapers, especially the political ones, do not have to be necessarily true. Don't they? The people in Türkiye are trying to pursue their rigths in a unitary country and the comment of "division" has nothing to do with the reality. So am I in a dream or you?
Thanks...
Dick Osseman11-Aug-2006 08:00
Bora,

You imply that if I search and learn I will come to the conclusion that this picture supports a terrorist organisation. Did you interview the girl, and thus know, or are you just pulling "facts" out of your hat? You also state photo's have a danger of supporting terrorism, which in my mind is a call for censure. If you are right, no photo's should be published of anything. Any picture may trigger a train of thought in a viewer that can lead to anything, including terrorism. By extension: no books should be published, no opinions (including yours) should be ventilated.

You claim my statement that there is a division in the country is wrong. Well, that would make Turkey the first country where there is no division. Also, it would make all the conversations I had with people from several sides of the spectrum, all the newspaper articles I read, all the books I ploughed trough invalid. I should just listen to Bora and be happy. Instead, this leads me to the conclusion you are not advocating "grounded" comments, but just the opposite: censure and opinionated comments. Could you please take that kind of writing elsewhere? You also seem to be under the illusion that writing again and again will add weight to your arguments: it does not, I know your reasoning and can go without.

As I write in the text under the picture I urge people to take a look at World Press Photo to see what freedom of the press implies. And to see some pictures that went around the world of people inciting to murder, violence, uprising, burning flags, calling out to kill people like me, all very dangerous pictures in your mind. I prefer to be able to see them, so I know what goes on.

I wish you happy dreams.
BORA 11-Aug-2006 07:21
Mr. Osseman, in your writing you say "i do not know whether the picture supports a terrorist organization" as far as I understand. If I were you, I would really search and learn what the reality is because you repeatedly receive messages like mine and because "you hate terrorism". Such photos have danger of encouraging terrorism that you hate. You also wrongly comment that there is a division in the country. Does this comment have any ground? This comment also gives a false information about Türkiye. I am just an advocate of making comment with ground.
BORA 11-Aug-2006 06:45
I am very sorry to see this picture here because it may show a terrorist organization, which has been destroying the Republic of Türkiye, a good thing. Please tell me which of the political parties on the earth makes victory sign? The aim of the people on the photo is pettily to agitate the people and destroy the country. You, as a photographer, she and the ones like her may be pleased with this picture but the real people of Turkish Republic do not. You can see what I mean in the thousands of funeral of the martyr and women, men, children that has been killed by the terrorists. Taking photo is a good activity and profession. However, I call you to be careful about the realities and sensitive about the feelings of a country as to the other countries. PLEASE BE SENSITIVE! I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING ELSE..
doranos 10-Aug-2006 14:24
it is an introduce of a country.for example when introducing germany if you use a photo of a skinhead it will disturb democratic european germans.this pic disturb us.she was making a victory sign.victory of what?victory of our soldiers and our peasants death.apo,the killer of 30.000 soldiers was making the same sign.
Kediye-kafa-atan-fare 18-Jul-2006 12:10
bu PKK liyi cekmeyecektin Dick.. Bunlar 30.000 bin sehitimizin bas katilleri
Dick Osseman11-Jul-2006 20:59
Thanks, Ye-Liou.

I try not to worry.
Ye-Liou 11-Jul-2006 19:56
You have displayed a truth about a country as it is... No worries...
Alpay 11-Jul-2006 11:29
The problem with this picture is that it is called `istanbul election fun`. The girls head bandage has three colours(green-yellow-red) and they indicate she supports the kurdish party which is a part of kurdish terrorist organization pkk. I think you can have the picture on the site-why not? But it has nothing to do with `fun` at all, unless you think that to support the death of 30.000 people is `funny`...
Hüseyin 16-May-2006 06:05
Hi to manager
Dear manager, this is a native from Turkiye.
I put myself into ur shoes and think about it. Let me do a objective comment;
To be honest i am a Kurdish here, i like Turkiye very very much. I like all people just for being humanbeing.

In Turkiye since 1990 ruoghly 30.000 people lost their life because of that PKK. Everybody might be right in their point of view.

Please Check the left corner at above and see a hanging painting. it is from an election. She is supporter but veey nice dressed and innocent.

Especially the East pard of Turkiye is poor in turms of Education. That PKK can fool thoose people easily, just know it. Yesterday last Sunday was Mother Days, and Kurdish Mother's lost their Chilren the previous day. Pkk attacked to a city in east.

To Sum up, you are quite right to publish your photos, n i agree. If i were you, i would do the same, cuz you dont know our sensitivity.

As a Kurdish i dont like PKK and any other terrorism groups,even hate... But believe me, they are deceived by PKK. I wish they weren't.

Thanks for your study...
(a professional tour guide for whole Turkiye)
ilkay 10-May-2006 06:02
Mr.Osseman,
I understood that you are about it's art view. Yes, it's a good foto according to art, but there is a certain truth these colors are the PKK colors. they use this colors together with this sign. this sign is used to be victory sign generaly, but in Turkey also used to be PKK sign. All the PKK militant aren't Kurdish. Turks and Kurds have been living in this area for centuries. Turks are Kurds aren't enemy together but PKK is the enemy of the whole world which is a terrorist group.
I said you don't want to be bothered. This is a normal request, but the other normal request is our sensation. PKK killed lots of innocent people in Turkey who are women, children. PKK is affecting teenages. I can't say you that "you mustn't publish this foto". this is your choose. I only want you to know our feelings about this topic. we have been damaging by PKK for a long time and you are using this foto such as a normal meeting foto. I'm really sorry about this.
hulya 06-May-2006 09:20
hello!I am from turkey and I am a Kurd.This picture is from a kind of celebration of Kurdish people called Newroz,everyone knows that.I liked it so much,thank you for showing it all the world.We are only trying to live our culture,trying to speak our language.That can't be terrorism and so we are not terrorrist!!!
Guest 12-Apr-2006 04:14
What's the big deal, turkish people? don't u wanna be europeans? Isn't ur government making great efforts to gain the membership of EU? Reforms were launched, laws are changing, wot about the minds of urs? This is actually the essence of freedom of press and the principel of democracy! Think more objectively and rationally. Kurds is also a member of ur family. Appriciate this foreign photographer's work and stop being narrow minded. Aili
Osman 31-Mar-2006 08:25
Wonderful artwork! Don't let one spoil it. Whom ever doesn't like it is a close minded sheep like braind washed person. Grow up people! Multi culturalisim is the best thing for a country.
Dick Osseman29-Mar-2006 14:44
Dear Oscar,

First of all I cannot put two pictures in one page. And you can find plenty of Atatürk all over the site. Also, if I did what you suggest, I would me making a demonstration rather than show a picture, which is precisely what I do not want to do.

And: if you can see what is inside peoples' head you are a far better psychogologist than I am. This is a truly amazing ability. If I understand you right, most Turkish citizens can do the same. You keep surprising me, fellows.
Oscar 29-Mar-2006 04:39
I can see a pretty gýrl on the pýcture however ý can be able to see what ýs ýnsýde her and what are theýr goal ... Most of TURKISH cýtýzens wýll agree wýth me ... ýnstead of thýs pýcture ýf you posted ATATURK's pýcture ý would have been aprýcýatýng you as well as all the TURKISH cýtýzens wýll do ...As ý understand your are not goýng to remove thýs pýcture ý would ask you to post ATATURK pýcture to the left and a TURKISH FLAG to the rýght after waýt for the comments ...
the wise child 20-Mar-2006 23:17
really beautiful picture, especially the background.. so many sweet details... i don't really understand people who cannot bear seeing such a photo. kurds are by definiton turks, as they are citizens of the turkish republic. and they are neighbours, workers, bosses and everywhere in the country. labeling the kurdish movement as terrorist and/or as a division would be a real progress in dividing the country. and i say this, without considering if it is necessary that the t.c. remains united. some people may think so, ad the state ideology is obviously built on that, therefore it may not be considered as open to discussion by many turks..
but leave alone all this political stuff to experts, political sciencists and people who actually have a word in state policies and such.. take a look at the smile she has on her face.. at the crowd.. and try to understand why those young teenagers on the right are so excited.. do you really think that is because they are kurds or i dont know what.. well thats obvious.. they are young, lively, and not timid as the pretty girl on the foreground..
accusing people of doing bad, does no good..
ulas c coskun 14-Mar-2006 20:22
I also thinks that this girl is supporting a pkk related party like hadep, however, you capture the picture and this is a reality of turkey. Some people support pkk, some people hate it. This is a reality of turkey. I'm happy to see you here even tough i donot support pkk. For future reference, red, green, and yellow colours are somehow attached to kurdish nationality.
Dick Osseman07-Mar-2006 21:22
As I promised I again deleted two comments today. I will continue to do so under the condition stipulated in the text under the picture.

The comment by Akpinar I leave on, because he makes a clear point, yet does not insult me, and even asks me to keep the picture on. With such a message, though it may hurt some people, I can live.