Graffiti Wall, Zagreb, Croatia, 2005 by Phil Douglis

Phil Douglis | all galleries >> Galleries >> Gallery Thirty: When walls speak and we listen > Graffiti Wall, Zagreb, Croatia, 2005

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05-SEP-2005

Graffiti Wall, Zagreb, Croatia, 2005

This wall is virtually exploding with energetic graffiti. Its dominant colors are navy blue, white, and red. I saw a nun moving down the street, wearing a navy blue and white habit, and carrying a bright red bag – a perfect match. As she walked past me, she raised one hand to her collar, as if to adjust it, and in raising her arm, she fits perfectly within the design on the wall, bonding herself to the scene behind her. She expresses her vocation by the clothing she wears, just as those who have embellished this wall express themselves by the color and style of their signatures. The wall speaks, and inadvertently, the nun becomes a part of its expression.

Canon PowerShot G6
1/100s f/4.0 at 14.4mm hide exif

Full EXIF Info
Date/Time	05-Sep-2005 20:10:23
Make	Canon
Model	Canon PowerShot G6
Flash Used	No
Focal Length	14.4 mm
Exposure Time	1/100 sec
Aperture	f/4
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias
White Balance	(-1)
Metering Mode	multi spot (3)
JPEG Quality	(6)
Exposure Program	shutter priority (2)
Focus Distance

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Phil Douglis		25-May-2006 17:34
It took a lot of waiting, Jack, and a bit of good fortune as well, to catch this nun against those colors and that particular piece of geometry.

Guest		25-May-2006 12:24
Nice composition, catching the lady, her angle and color in sympathy with the graffiti!!

Phil Douglis		09-Oct-2005 17:51
You make an excellent point and ask a good question, Alister. Yes, I admit that my views on cropping are influenced by the fact that I have taught photojournalism for 35 years and cropping for photojournalistic purposes is not the same as cropping for fine art purposes. The mediums are entirely different. A journalistic image must tell a story and as such, content usually plays a huge role in determining a crop. A fine art image need not. Art is open ended, has no obligation to its viewers other than to make them feel, think and wonder. You also wondered if "people coming into the debate from a fine art point of view may have valid input by saying the aesthetic image can have a stronger voice than a cluttered whole story?" I don't think there is such a thing as "the aesthetic image" per se. Artists often base their work on aesthetic principles -- a concern with beauty and pleasing appearances -- and create pleasurable images by using them to good effect. However art itself goes far beyond pure aesthetics --it embraces many other considerations and purposes as well. Journalists, meanwhile, have an obligation to a story, and aesthetic principles often must take a back seat in their work. On the other hand, "a cluttered whole story" is not good journalism. Effective photojournalism calls for clear, clean, thought provoking images, and clutter is not the way to go. The artist and the journalist take different roads to the same end: expression of ideas that impact the mind, imagination of the viewer. Each uses cropping as a tool to enhance that journey. The purpose might differ, but in the end, effective cropping has the power to help define meaning, no matter what the ultimate purpose or motivation might be.

alibenn		09-Oct-2005 13:13
Thanks Phil, we have had many and fun chats about cropping, as I too am really into it.. I remember you saying you always crop for content rather than aesthetics, do you feel that is a by-product of your photo-journalistic background, whereas, people coming into the debate from a fine art point of view may have valid input by saying the aesthetic image can have a stronger voice than a cluttered whole story?

Phil Douglis		08-Oct-2005 00:01
Thanks for coming back again to this image, Alister, and for expanding upon your views of it. As you know, the reason I post images here on pbase is to teach, and your words, harsh or not, are valuable to me because they extend my teaching, particularly on the subject of cropping, which is near and dear to my heart. As for my changing this crop and my justifications for doing so, I am doing both to demonstrate the nature of cropping as a flexible and powerful tool of visual expression. I often change my crops in my galleries to intensify new meanings in my images as they are revealed to me by others, and do so as a teacher. I see my images as flexible, not carved in stone. And I am always open to suggestions such as yours and to new interpretations such as Kal suggested here, and will gladly adjust my images accordingly to make a teaching point. No need to apologize, Alister -- I will welcome your views always, and use them here to help others learn more about expression.

alibenn		04-Oct-2005 23:14
I agree with you Phil, and perhaps my language was a bit harsh. Expressive photography, as we know, is an attempt to solicit responses from the viewer, to make them think, as Kal and Lisbeth clearly have from their comments. I have made numerous comments in your galleries about crops, some you have embraced, some you have defended and left in their original form. You say below: "Every decision we make in terms of cropping, positioning, perspective, etc. must be made in light of what we are trying to express." If that is the case, you have to accept when you re-crop an image you are changing your mind about what you want the image to say, in this case, you felt the original crop added depth, I felt it distracted from the nun and the wall, okay, redundant may be harsh, but TO ME, it was.. When we put an image on PBase we have to accept that not everyone will "GET IT" I also said "at times comment on cropping from a purely instinctive point of view". your reply somehow implies that is the only way I work, whereas Kal was nearer the mark when he said that I see things..certainly not any more or less valid than half a page of metaphor.. Now, in this case, I don't feel the crop dramatically changes the meaning of the image, the nun still walks in front of a wall, the incongruity is excellent, the juxtaposition in humanity is excellent. We are arguing about a technicality of a crop. In this case Phil I believe you are using an implied change of meaning to justify your backing down and changing the crop. An excellent image Phil, apologies for continuing defense of my position, and I know it's not a case of right or wrong, I put enormous thought into cropping my images, but am always open to suggestions.

Phil Douglis		04-Oct-2005 17:11
Thanks, Alister and Kal for returning to this image. I agree with all that both of you have said here -- except for the observation that my crop was originally redundant. I always crop my images with a purpose in mind, and the inclusion of the sidewalk suited my purpose -- to add depth to the image. However, when Kal pointed out an entirely new message present in the image, it made sense to flatten the image by cropping the sidewalk and the curb out. I appreciate the fact that others crop images for different reasons than I do -- if instinct works for you, Alister, then by all means continue to use it and use it well. I thank you for starting this discussion -- it is extremely valuable, because it shows how different people use the same tool, in this case cropping, in entirely different ways. Which is one of the great strengths of photography. If we all cropped pictures the same way and for the same reasons, the art form would calcify and die. Kal puts it well -- it's "another way of seeing." I am thrilled that you saw what you saw in this image, Kal, and the new crop was able to greatly strengthen the image in terms of that new meaning.

alibenn		04-Oct-2005 11:55
nicely put Kal....I really like the image now...and see all you do in it too..

Kal Khogali		04-Oct-2005 11:18
I prefer it now, and it is the way I imagined it. Alister is more clinical than you or I, he once mentioned how he only wanted things in the image that added to it, no clutter. I guess that means he "sees" things like the weak diagonlas more than you or I. That is just another way of seeing, just as valid in my opinion. As for clutter, well I specialise in it, so no cropping will generally remove it all! I tend to look for metaphors, maybe that is what I saw, when I played with crop...the point was that the meaning came out cleaner as I played with it.

alibenn		04-Oct-2005 03:17
I can be a man of few words Phil and at times comment on cropping from a purely instinctive point of view. Most of my crops come from within, while not cropping purely for aesthetics, but to summarise the meaning and form of the image. I didn't imply it was a distraction, I said it was redundant, it was a week diagonal, the image without is much better, and if people wish to delve into the metaphorical implications of the shot, this provides a cleaner, more sussinct canvas for them to do so. I feel we can all be pretty sensitive about our images, perhaps if I had articulated my reasoning and given you a better reason you would have agrred with me in the first place. Thanks to Kal for helping you see this is better than before.

Phil Douglis		03-Oct-2005 16:59
One more clarification would be in order here, Kal. If this image is to speak of an isolation of faith in this modern world, it must do so only in a much larger context. If we think, however, of the role of faith in modern life of Croatia itself, there is much less isolation. This is a nation of fervent Catholicism -- the church plays a huge role here in shaping values, life, and tradition. Faith here is integrated with modern life, not isolated from it. But in a larger sense, your point holds true. In many places, and in many ways, faith is increasingly isolated from the life of the modern world, and this image would make a strong symbol for that idea.

Phil Douglis		03-Oct-2005 16:42
Thanks, Kal, for this comment. I never considered this image as representing a nun's attempt to isolate herself through her faith from the modern world. It changes the meaning of the picture entirely for me. As such, I have removed the foreground. Not because it was a distraction. It was never a distraction as Alister implies. It gave the image depth. But if we look at this image as an expression of isolation, the lack of foreground depth helps push the nun into the wall. The ultimate lesson you draw for us here is critical. Every decision we make in terms of cropping, positioning, perspective, etc. must be made in light of what we are trying to express.

Kal Khogali		03-Oct-2005 11:52
I see discomfort, hot under the collar. The pressure of knowing that the battle for good may be being lost. I have to agree with Alister with this image (unlike the other) about the foreground. I have moved it around my screen, and have concluded that without the curb, she is more isolated. And isolation of faith in this modern world is what this image is about to me. So as you said, your content can be my distraction. It depends how you interpret the image.

Phil Douglis		03-Oct-2005 02:05
What a delightful response to this image, Lisbeth! The nun is part of the expression here, Lisbeth, precisely because of what you say. The more she tries to ignore the explosion of ideas all around her, the more involved she seems to become in them.

Lisbeth Landstrøm		02-Oct-2005 23:01
The controlled and simple strength of the nun - repeated in her correction of the collar - makes her a wonderful contrast to the explosive shoutings on the wall. However only irony controls, when she through her correction tries to dissociate from the shouting - and inevitably becomes even more married to it. I too love this picture!!

Phil Douglis		02-Oct-2005 21:03
Glad you like this image, Alister. I disagree on the foreground. I feel it adds context and depth -- and also a touch of incongruity. The sidewalk and curb are spotless -- while the wall is anarchic. In photography, one person's content is often another's distraction.

alibenn		02-Oct-2005 07:06
Love it, the master of incongruity takes the game to a new level....again, I don't like the addition of the sidewalk in the foreground, I'd get rid of the bottom...it's a weak diagonal..

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