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Phil Douglis | all galleries >> Galleries >> Gallery One: Travel Abstractions -- Unlimited Thought > Woman to Market, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, 2001
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21-FEB-2000

Woman to Market, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, 2001

I waited to shoot until this woman reached those long shadows flowing along the street. She seemed to be suspended in space, her emotions and identity concealed by the backlighting.

Kodak DC4800
1/250s f/4.5 at 17.7mm hide exif
Full EXIF Info
Date/Time21-Feb-2000 04:04:41
MakeKodak
ModelDC4800
Flash UsedNo
Focal Length17.7 mm
Exposure Time1/250 sec
Aperturef/4.5
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias-1.00
White Balance
Metering Modeaverage (1)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Programprogram (2)
Focus Distance136.660 m

other sizes: small medium large original auto
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Phil Douglis09-Apr-2005 05:32
Thanks, Sonia, for this comment. I often get comments such as this, referring to "distractions." I define a distraction as an accidental element in a picture that has nothing to do with the idea at hand, and competes, rather than complements, the point of the picture. The color of those buildings, particularly the one flying that small red flag of Vietnam, was not distracting to me at all. In fact, I consider that color very important to my idea here. If we took it away by turning this image into black and white, the picture would not say what it now says. You are right, Sonia, about the warm coloration of the morning sun. Its loss would be felt. And the warm coloration of the building in the background, along its national flag, which is symbolic of Ho Chi Minh City, would vanish as well, diminishing the sense of place now expressed in this image. These colors are what give this image much of its atmosphere and mood and in the case of the flag, identity.

As for cropping out the right hand side of this image, that would also change its meaning substantially by removing the long shadows and the line on the street that are drawing her towards us. Do you see how the long shadow and white line meet in the lower right hand corner, forming an arrow and creating strong diagonal flow? That is the key to my composition of this image. (You will discover much more about diagonals in my Gallery on composition.)

This image is built on implied movement, and its the interplay of light, shadow, and that line on the street that creates that implication.

Thanks, Sonia, for both of these suggestions. Although I disagree on some of them, I hope my answers will be useful to you in learning more about how travel photographs express ideas.
Guest 08-Apr-2005 22:40
The buildings so colorful is a bit distracting to me in this picture. At first I don't understand how I should look at it but after reading the comments, I do. If I have cropped the image into a vertical frame, getting rid of the buildings and leaving only the left hand side with the tricycle and the line of motorcycle, would it work? Or would it work in black and white? (Hmm... but then the color of the morning sun would disappear)
Phil Douglis15-Dec-2004 00:41
I am not sure if the street actually rises at this point or not, but my angle of perspective, the long shadows diagonally leading the eye into the lower right, and the camera's 28mm wideangle lens' distortion effect at the base of the picture, all seem to imply a "lifting" towards the right. Good eye, Mikel.
Guest 15-Dec-2004 00:29
There is one little detail that escaped my eye at first, the street perspetive seems to go up I supose that it is for the great angular and tha the camera is a bit tilted to the left, that gives the feeleng that the women still has to give more efford to her pedaling.
Phil Douglis14-Dec-2004 23:15
Mikel, I'm glad you caught the incongruity of "yesterday" (the woman with the cart) leading "today" (the distant motorbikes) here. We all know who is going to win this "race," of course. The new will soon overcome the old, and as you add, the poor will be replaced by a world of commodities. This image works, however, because of the interplay of light and shadow you mention, with the abstraction cause by backlighting concealing both her emotions and identity. I leave it up to my viewers to feel as she must feel at this moment in light, space, and time.
Guest 14-Dec-2004 22:51
One thing that caught my attention here is this women pedaling away with her trycicle and the motorbykes following her a bit further. A contrast between Old / New, Poorness / not richness but yes comodity. The shadows also give a bit of a thrill feeleng to it, such vertical shadows in the same direction is like and arrow that is telling you to go in that direction, for saying it in some way.
Phil Douglis01-Dec-2004 22:37
My roots are journalistic, Clara, and much of street photography is really an extension of photojournalism.
Guest 01-Dec-2004 17:53
to me again is a journalist image, portraying somewhere lifestyle and culture. the women, main subject, talks of hard living and times - maybe as for ages.
Phil Douglis08-Nov-2004 00:05
Ron, thank you for these kind words. I was very moved by them. I have long felt that expressive images can trigger thoughts in the viewer to stimulate the imagination, emotions and intellect. They can help people see the unfamiliar within the familiar, or even to think of things in new ways. I am the photographer who made this image, yet the comments on this page show me how even I can see my own work in a different light, as my viewers express their own ideas to me about it.

That has happened with this image -- what began as a study of abstraction and light and shadow, becomes a social comment instead, as people notice the motorbikes overtaking this woman, suggesting that Vietnam, as indeed much of Asia, is in the midst of great changes. The ultimate compliment, I guess, is when someone tells me that my image not only produced thought, but in a way, produced action as well. If my image played any role in the getting your brother-in-law to go back to Vietnam, I will be forever in your debt. The greatest gift that can come to any photographer is when his or images encourage others not only to think, wonder, and imagine things, but ultimately to act on those thoughts.

Thank you, Ron, for telling us your story.
ron 07-Nov-2004 20:12
Wow, you really captured one of my feelings of Saigon. I feel Viet Nam is full of numerous views of the past and present all mixed together. This street looks very familiar to me and there is both a feeling of nostalgia for the past and the coming rush of the present and future rapidly coming in on, from behind, and soon to overtake this (I assume) street vender. As one example of how well you did with this image, I showed it to my brother-in-law, who after an absence of almost 30 years, had been putting off returning to Viet Nam for many reasons, and a few days later he bought his plane ticket to go back. I had frequently told him, how each time I visited, I saw how much it had changed from my previous trip. This is to me is a very moving scene, thanks.
Phil Douglis30-Oct-2004 23:27
Nice point about noise, which I subordinate here to the quiet that surrounds this woman. But the noise is coming on her fast, as is a new way of life. I like your phrase, "Gap of Time." I interpret that as the space between that woman and those oncoming motorbikes.
nut 30-Oct-2004 16:25
I do agree with you about she seemed to be suspended in space. But when I saw motorbike
behind her, it remind me how noisy Hanoi is. What I like here is the independent of Hanoi life
in the same time. How noisy you heard in Hanoi, is how simply life you can find here. Gap of
time are so narrow to me in this photo.
Phil Douglis11-Oct-2004 00:11
It amazes me that I did not think of this myself when I took this picture. I was concentrating so hard on suspending that woman in the spaces between the shadows, that I never even noticed the motorbikes in the background. They are everywhere in Vietnam and eventually they become invisible. But in photography, Rodney, we must take careful note of everything in the frame and decide if it works for the idea or not. As it happened here, the bikes have become the message for Dianne and you, and for Jen as well, once she read Dianne's comment. And now they have become the point of the picture for myself. Although I did not intend to say this, I am delighted that this meaning has emerged. Is this a form of "cheating?" I don't think so. Photographs can change meaning, depending upon the context that is applied to them. When Dianne and Jen and yourself decided that this image is all about generational change, I must consider that to be just as valid a message as my original idea.
Phil Douglis11-Oct-2004 00:10
It amazes me that I did not think of this myself when I took this picture. I was concentrating so hard on suspending that woman in the spaces between the shadows, that I never even noticed the motorbikes in the background. They are everywhere in Vietnam and eventually they become invisible. But in photography, Rodney, we must take careful note of everything in the frame and decide if it works for the idea or not. As it happened here, the bikes have become the message for Dianne and you, and for Jen as well, once she read Dianne's comment. And now they have become the point of the picture for myself. Although I did not intend to say this, I am delighted that this meaning has emerged. Is this a form of "cheating?" I don't think so. Photographs can change meaning, depending upon the context that is applied to them. When Dianne and Jen and yourself decided that this image is all about generational change, I must consider that to be just as valid a message as my original idea.
Guest 10-Oct-2004 20:55
I agree 100% with Diane. To me I see the setting. The place never changes (the culture will remain) but it also is like a race....The woman is in the lead, but catching up are the more modern younger generation that will soon take the lead in the culture
Phil Douglis09-Oct-2004 18:09
And you made a remarkable comment as well, Jen. I have assigned you the job of looking for "shitty pictures" in my galleries, because I think the fastest way for you to learn how to read the meaning of pictures, and improve the meaning in your own pictures, is to become a photographic critic in your own right. What is a "shitty picture?" In this teaching context, it is a picture that fails to work for you as expression. I loved your first reaction to this picture, Jen. You saw it as flat and loose. It did not work for you initially. The woman was too far away for you to learn much about her. I had drummed the mantra "if your pictures aren't good enough, you probably aren't close enough," into your head, as well. I can see why this image, at first, did not say much to you. You had every right to see this is a shitty picture, because it did not meet your own standards for an expressive image.

Now you know that you were looking at it with blinders on. In your zeal to study the subject (who was quite distant) you could not absorb the mood. At least until you read the other comments here.

You really did not need to read the comments of others in order to make up your own mind about the meaning of this picture, Jen. You must learn to step back and let a picture wash over you as an experience. Stop focusing on the "what," and start concentrating on the "why' and the "how." And that is what you finally did here. You finally focused on the mood. This image is in my abstraction gallery, Jen. I deliberately abstracted this woman by backlighting her, concealing the very emotions and identity you originally were looking for here. By abstraction, I have created a mood of suspension in space. She seems to float slowly among the long shadows on that street. And the world is about pass her by. And as Diane so beautifully points out, she seems about to become a relic of the past, consumed by the changes about to catch up to her -- as represented by those distant motorized bikes."

I am always delighted when you work hard on my images to find expressive meaning. You do it well, Jen, and you will get better and better at it. Eventually, you may even be able to find one of my pictures that says absolutely nothing to you, and no amount of study or explanation will change your mind. And that is when our discussions of expressive photography will move to an entirely new level. I'm looking forward to the pleasure of getting into a such a dialogue with you, Jen.
Jennifer Zhou09-Oct-2004 06:31
Dianne made a remarkable point!

Phil, I was actually looking through this gallery for shitty pictures and I chose this because at the first glance it was a flat, loose picture to me..Even there is this women seems to be the central point but she is so far away from me and the picture can't tell much about her..I was gonna use--"If you pictures aren't good enough, you probably aren't close enough." to criticize this picture..

But after reading through all the comments here, I realize that you focus more on creating the mood here--fresh monring, quiet street, a country women..And this picture does that very well and also stimulates many thoughts..It's a successful expressive photograph!

It makes me recall one of my university shot. I was trying to create a mood there too, but you thought my two-lovers-subject is lost because I placed them too far away...I will try to crop it again see if it can work out..

Jen
Dianne 25-Mar-2004 05:46
When this photograph is enlarged, I am able to see the people in motorbikes at the back as well as a car. For me, the picture implies change. The peace would soon be replaced with the hustle and bustle of technology.
Phil Douglis20-Oct-2003 01:51
Lance, wherever you are and whoever you may be, your comment on this picture has moved me deeply. It is a very special thing for any photograph to receive this kind of validation. This is one of my favorite street scenes -- to me it was the essence of Saigon. And that's what travel photography comes down to -- a search for an essence, a visual truth that best captures the look, the sound, the feel, and perhaps even the smell and taste of a place. That's what all of us who call ourselves travel photojournalists are after, a sense of place. You obviously have lived here, and for this image to bring it all back to you is more than any photographer could ask for. Thank you.
Phil
LanceD 19-Oct-2003 15:34
Phil,
Great image. You captured the scene, the atmospheres perfectly. I missed such peaceful morning there a lot. A morning with muffler noise, with people rushing to the early market, with people started their day w/o knowing if they can make enough money for their meals. She is one of them. This street is one of many street you can find in Saigon with similar scene. I always want to go back to capture such poor, but peaceful scene. I will, one day.

Thanks for sharing this.
Phil Douglis11-Oct-2003 02:58
Janer -- you speak as if you were actually there! It was exactly like you say. Muffled sound and gentle people. I saw this woman coming a long way off, and waited for her to enter the most airy portion of my frame. Phil
Guest 07-Oct-2003 14:55
I didn't see the woman at first. I feel the air, hear muffled noise. Everyone is headed in the same direction. Gentle place?
Phil Douglis02-Oct-2003 18:54
BZ -- isn't in wonderful how everyone can read a photograph in their own way, see whatever they want to see in it, putting as much of themselves into an image as they wish? That is one of the most important reasons to make expressive images -- they can affect the imaginations, intellects, and emotions of those who look at them. You are so right. This woman does indeed own this street forever (or at least as long as this photographed moment will survive.)
Phil
Bailey Zimmerman02-Oct-2003 14:41
Not just the moment....for her entire lifetime.....an endless worth........
Phil Douglis19-Sep-2003 17:32
Thanks, Bailey Z -- yes, this woman is on her way to market in the morning. You are right -- this picture is all about the shadows and about space. She does indeed own it -- at least for the moment.
Bailey Zimmerman 19-Sep-2003 04:09
Phil,
Her face doesn't convey her emotions...but her whole body...her bold possession of the street, speaks volumes!
I love those long morning shadows..oh, how I hope it's morning. It's too fresh to be an evening...after a long day!!
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