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This study will be on 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. It all about what the " perfect " is in this verse. Why ? Because there are two ( possibly 3 ) camps supporting what the word perfect means. Both camps , one being cessasianist ( cease to be miraculous gifts) and continuists ( continues to be miraculous gifts ) are supporters of this verse but BOTH cant be correct ! I believe the " perfect " is the completion of the bible and I will take that view in this study. Others ( mainly Charismatics ) believe it to be Jesus or the heavenly Glorification of believers. The 3rd view is the heavenly state but I will keep Jesus and heaven in one camp for ease of understanding. This study is not a pamplet reading but information I have found pertinent for this study. I will not always add things here in order as they " should " be read.
I reference GQ for many bible studies. Love that site and you will too. However I dont agree with the Jesus heaven stance they have taken.
Heres is there teaching of it.. What is the meaning of perfect in 1 Corinthians 13:10? https://www.gotquestions.org/perfect-1Corinthians-13-10.html
First Corinthians 13:10 says, “When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away” (KJV). The ESV puts it this way: “When the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.” The “in part” or “partial” things are the gifts of prophecy, knowledge, and tongues (verses 8–9). There will be a time when these gifts will cease because something better (“that which is perfect”) will replace them. So what is this " perfect " thing.. or to be fair who or where is this perfect thing ?
Perfect means in this verse “complete”—the incomplete will be replaced by the complete. There is a major debate as to what the coming of the “perfect” thing is. The two most common views are the completion of the Bible and " Jesus or/and " the glorification of believers in heaven.
There are but 3 things in that verse which are the subject matter to which the PERFECT pertains to. That is prophecy, knowledge and tongues. What me and MOST of the world are witnessing are Charismatic preachers speaking in tongues who dont obey all the rules for tongue speakers. Also there is no medically ( or visually ) verifiable miracles to be accounted for which many Charismatic preachers claim to be able to do. They claim to have apostolic gifts to heal, reveal prophecy and speak in miraculous tongues. I have seen NOTHING that convinces me there are apostolic gifts today..... not even on the internet. If you can share something verifiable please add it below ! Not to make this a long drawn out study but the office of apostle is closed. !. One must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Also scripture says Paul was the last apostle ! The miraculous gifts of the Spirit, including apostleship, prophecy, tongues, healing, and miracles served the purpose of validating the message about Jesus during the early days of the church, but now that the apostolic foundation is laid and the canon of scriptural revelation is complete, the miraculous gifts will cease.
Got questions writes " But, for the time being, we are limited in our understanding: “We know in part and we prophesy in part” (1 Corinthians 13:9). When we get to heaven, the “partial” things will give way to the “perfect,” and preaching and teaching will no longer be needed.
Me- so now GQ says " for the time being we are limited to our understanding" . They just through that out there with no explanation. My understanding is this ... 2 Peter 1:3-4 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust./

The claim " we know in part and prophecy ( preach ) in part " is the answer to the impartial thing. Look closely, we KNOW in part can at the very extreme can lead some to believe that knowledge could be revealed in heaven but they have a problem when it comes to prophecy. Why do I say that ? Because of this question .. " will the words of God be added to scripture after heaven ? I dont think so. I will touch base on this later on.
What necessity is there for preaching in heaven when Gods Word says we will have minds like Jesus ? According to Christian belief when we are in heaven, our minds will be like Jesus's, meaning they will be perfectly pure, completely free from sin, and filled with the wisdom and understanding of God, allowing us to fully comprehend His love and glory; this is often referenced in the Bible verse "we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2) which signifies our transformation to be like Christ in heaven. Beloved, we are God 's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. With all this said I dont " believe " we will be in need of any more scripture than what we have now. Impartial knowledge means the knowledge that God has revealed at the time of the writing had not yet been fully revealed. This impartial knowledge is being compared to complete knowledge. Again one camp says knowledge is scripture, the other says knowledge is the knowledge of the glorified Christian in heaven. Ive always wondered why God would even put this verse in the bible if it in fact did mean knowledge would cease when the saints get their glorified bodies.. Why would God speak to believers in the church of Corinth about knowledge and prophecy ceasing if the ceasing didnt happen until all saints go to heaven ? That doesnt make sense to me. In fact when you think about it that was 2000 years ago, kinda makes you wonder why the " enlightenment " about tongues, prophecy and knowledge wouldnt cease for at least another 2000 years !
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RULE 1 of bible hermaneutics... always include all scripture pertaining to a certain subject to understand it in truth.
This is why and when tongues ceased !!!! 1 corinthians 13:8
If there are prophecies, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; or knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect comes, that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror, in an enigma, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall fully know just as I am fully known. I will repeat this verse many times throughout for obvious reasons.
In the passage quoted above, the Apostle Paul taught that at the coming of "that which is perfect," three things were to happen: "Prophecies" would be abolished, "knowledge" or (supernaturally revealed knowledge) would be abolished, and "tongues" (the supernaturally acquired speaking of languages) would cease.
"Prophecies, "knowledge," and "tongues" were things that were "in part," incomplete or imperfect. The word " perfect " in the bible often means complete
Paul compared having them as being like a child, and to looking through a mirror dimly instead of "face to face; then doing away of those things when maturity and perfection arives. Consider looking through a mirror " dimly ". Not seeing ones reflection in its clear and sharp expectation and form. Not being able to see ones self completley as one should be able to . DIMLY, not a good thing when looking to a mirror. The dim mirror cant do what it was intended for. This is compared with being able to see one selfs as one would see himself " face to face " in a mirror. A mirror that was completely clear and able to do what it was intended for, Dimly vs clarity.
Based on Paul's words in this passage, the only question as to whether or not the gift of "tongues" exists today as it did in Bible times is a question of timing: Has "that perfect thing" come?" If it has, then tongues have ceased, but if it hasnt; then tongues have continued through the generations up to this very day and will continue until ( what some claim ) will be when the saints get glorified in heaven !
First, to determine whether or not "that perfect thing" has come; we must determine exactly what "that perfect thing" is. The Greek ( bible language at that time) word for "perfect" is telios, t-e-l-i-o-s. https://biblehub.com/greek/5046.htm It means complete," "full grown" or "mature." It refers to something that has been brought to its end or goal. Paul was looking forward to a coming maturity or completeness. The term telios does not refer to “perfect” in the sense typically understood by the average modern English reader....to be sinless which some would like to attribute to Jesus. Yes Jesus was sinless but this word is not about being sinless so by definition it excludes Jesus. Again, some have concluded that the “perfect” refers to Jesus-since He has been the only perfect person. (by the way, there is no record of Jesus speaking in tongues) ! Other interpretations apply “perfect” to heaven (the only perfect place that will be free of sin and imperfection), or Christian maturity and perfect love (the perfect condition or quality). But, in context, Paul wasnt contrasting qualities or places. He was contrasting quantities !!
He was making a contrast between the partial miraculous gifts, the partial knowledge and the partial prophetic word, with the coming of the what was to be- an imparital thing..... the fully revealed Word of God.
Again the Greek word describing PERFECT is teleios. The word refers to totality, that which is whole, brought to its end, finished, and lacking nothing necessary to be complete. Even James in James 1:25 used the term PERFECT to refer to the all-sufficiency of God’s Word in its ability to achieve everything it was intended to do.
Teleios is a neuter word. Most foreign languages use nouns in the masculine or the feminine gender considering on how the noun is used. Here its used as a neuter word, giving strong indication that it does not refer to a person ,so PERFECT does not refer to Jesus. Also notice what the bible does NOT say. In 1 Cor13:10 have you ever noticed that scripture does NOT say " But when WHO is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away". Wouldnt proper language demand WHO when referring to Jesus instead of " that which " ? You use the word "who" to refer to the subject of a sentence, meaning it indicates the person performing an action in a clause or question; essentially, "who" is used when you're talking about someone doing something, as opposed to "whom" which is used when someone is receiving the action. But thats just a language lesson making our point,

There are two places in the New Testament that speak of that perfection to which Paul and the 1st-century Church were hoping to attain.
From these two passages and their contexts we will be able to determine exactly what " that perfect thing" was to be, and also when it was to come. The two references are Eph. 4:13 and Heb. 9:11. Let us first look at Eph. 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Here we see that "that which is PERFECT " was to be the full-grown Body of Christ, the mature Church." God was building up Christ's Body, the Church, through the gifts of the Holy Spirit and by revealing his word to the Church so it could grow up in Christ-likeness unto the mature or PERFECT ( COMPLETE ) Man. We would be mature in Gods full knoweldge so that we wouldnt be persuaded by mans untruths and deceptions. Heres a question that simplifies what Paul was saying about being perfected in Christ...
How can something be fully replicated toward something; if that something hasnt been fully revealed itself? Man could not be perfected or completed in the image of Christ until Christs image (all revelataion of Christ ) was made complete through the finished works of the bible.. Gods Will had to be completely revealed before we could honor his will completely !
And Eph. 2:21 teaches us exactly what this final perfection of the Body of Christ was to mean:"
When the Church finally reached maturity or perfection through the gifts ( knowledge and prophecy ) of the Holy Spirit and the fully revealed word of God, The body of Christ which is THE CHURCH was to become God's Temple. Through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Church was "being built together into a Dwelling-place of God in the Spirit." Peter refers to that future perfection when he wrote "... Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto a holy temple in the Lord: In whom you also are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit. We are the temple (the body of believers) the unity - the oneness, that Jesus spoke of which was built without hands through his circumsision in Colossians 2:11
That which is perfect" came by means of the Holy Spirit and was the consummation of the work of the Holy Spirit." The body of believers was the end result from the work of the Holy Spirit. Dont forget that one duty of the Holy Spirit was to reveal Gods Word through prophecy and knowledge that was being revealed through apostles and prophets ;- and to help propigate that knowledge was the gift of tongues. Once that prophecy and knowledge was finished being revealed, It would cease... and so would the tongues that helped propigate it !!!
Now according to the Bible, when exactly in history was the work of the Holy Spirit in perfecting the Body of Christ to be consummated or finished, so that the perfect Temple of God ( The body of believers ) would reach its fullness bringing about the cessation of tongues?" To answer this, let's look at the final New Testament reference to the coming of "that which is perfect."
A study on the Imperfect Tabernacle and the perfect Tabernacle . One had to go before the other one came into existence.
This will explain what took place WHEN tongues ceased. Hebrews 9:11 But Christ having appeared as a High Priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect Tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation....
The "more PERFECT Tabernacle" here is that heavenly "Temple" or "Dwelling place" unto which the Church was growing through the power of the Holy Spirit in Eph. 2:21,22. This temple was not a building or anything that was created by hands. " It corresponds to the heavenly "building," "house" and "home" with which the Church was expecting to be clothed. 2 Cor. 5: 1,2,6;
it is the "Abode" which the Father and the Son were going to make within believers (Jn. 14:23);
it is the promised "Tabernacle of God among men" which the Church was anxiously awaiting (Rev. 21:3; 22:7,10,12,20).
" It was to be the formation of Christ in the Church which Paul was eagerly expecting Gal. 4:19."
It was to be the realization of the first-century Church's hope of glory: "Christ in you" (Col. 1:27).
" In very truth, it is that Kingdom which Jesus said is "within you" (Lk. 17:21).
This is what "Perfection is". "Its the full spirit of God in man " Again I say, none of this could come to fruition without the Bible; the complete and finished revelations of God. When the book of Hebrews was written (A.D. 66), the saints knew that the Way into the heavenly, PERFECT Tabernacle or Sanctuary (the face-to-Face Presence of God) had not yet been manifest to all the saints ( Heb. 11:39,40) because the first, earthly tabernacle was still standing (Heb. 9:8,9)
In other words, as long as the worldly, fleshly, old-testament tabernacle of God was still standing, then "that which is perfect" ("the more perfect Tabernacle", the Temple of God; the complete, blood- perfected Church) had not yet come in its fullness."
As long as the imperfect earthly house of God remained standing and its sinful ministers were still in power, the "more perfect tabernacle" would not be established with finality in Christ's true people. In light of the above, we are now in a position to answer the question, When in history did this new more perfect temple arive; or better said; when did "that which is perfect" come?

The answer is- when the old-testament temple was thrown down and the old-testament world and way of worship passed away and vanished (Heb. 8:13)." At that time, tongues ceased ! Jesus said concerning the old, imperfect temple at earthly Jerusalem, Do you not see all these things?" [the beautiful stones and gifts and buildings of the temple]" "Truly I say to you, there shall not be left here one stone on a stone which shall not be thrown down." In A.D. 70, about 40 years after Jesus' spoke that prophecy, the old temple and the old covenant world were thrown down." God's heavenly Temple was then completely established among men." That which is (PERFECT) had come!" God gathered His elect into His House ( or Kingdom) when the earthly, hand-made" house was thrown down (II Cor. 5:1)." The Church was complete (PERFECT) in the New Covenant Presence of Christ ! To sum up- prophecy, knowledge and tongues came to an end when:
1. the Church became the Perfect Temple through the work of the indwelling Holy Spirit,
2. when the Way into the heavenly, perfect Tabernacle of God was made manifest to all the saints,
3. when the ( imperfect), old testament tabernacle was thrown down by the judgment of God and the saints in the consummation of the old covenant age in A.D. 70.
4. and tongues came to an end when the complete revelations of God were made known to man through the finished works of the bible.

Pauls illustration in 1 Corinth 13. says that -When the church possessed only bits and pieces of God’s will, as revealed through scattered miraculous gifts and the gradual production of scripture, Paul could not achieve full spiritual maturity. He could not become a mirrored image of God until (God) had revealed himself fully to man. Hence the verse....For now we see through a glass, dimly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as I am fully known. Paul could not see God completely because God at that time had not revealed himself completely ! Paul only knew IN PART about God; God was dim to HIM- obsure to HIM. But after God revealed himself fully through the completion of the bible, Then Paul could see God clearly- in full revealed detail.. Paul then could know God fully as God fully knows Paul. !!! ALL THIS IS SCRIPTURE SCREAMING THE TRUTH ABOUT TONGUES TO YOU !!!!!!
Now lets disect 1 Corinthians 13:8 from what we have learned;
Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part( at that time Paul knew only the imcomplete bible), and we prophesy in part ( Paul could only preach Gods incomplete revelations at that time)
But when that which is perfect comes ( when Gods full revelations come) , that which is in part ( those apostalic gifts just spoken of ) will be done away.
When I was a child ( the incomplete man in Christ) , I used to speak as a child ( speak without the total knowledge of God) , think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man ( when Paul matured in fullness through Gods complete revelations) , he did away with childish things ( those apostalic partial gifts- TONGUES BEING ONE OF THEM !!!) . For now we see in a mirror, ( at that time God was not clearly seen) , but then ( after God completed his revelations) face to face ( Paul could see God in his fullness) ; now I know in part ( Gods revelations were incomplete) , but then ( when Gods revelations WOULD BE complete) I shall fully know ( Paul will know all the information about God ) just as I am fully known ( Just as God already knows all there is to know about Paul)
Like I said This where the rubber meets the road why and when tongues have ceased. It is so important that we understand this lesson so we can incorporate .... or should I say so we shouldnt incorporate it in our worship services.
Paul lacked the necessarey information for spiritual maturity. He was as a child.
However, when the totality of God’s will, which became the New Testament, had been revealed in its entiriety, Paul then would have the means available to become “a man” (1 Corinthiasn 13:11).
Once the church (body of believers) had access to all of God’s written Word, -the means by which the Word was dispersed ( sometimes tongues ) would dissapear !!! They would be obsolete, useless, and therefore be “put away”. Now that the church has access to “all truth” (John 16:13), the use of tongue-speaking and other miraculous enhancements in the church today; would be done away. (( how many times do I need to say this)) ??

In Epheisans 4, Paul made essentially the same point to the Ephesians that he made to the Corinthians. Apostlic Miracles given by Christ, were to last “till the unity of the faith came into existance and the (FULL COMPLETE )knowledge of the Son of God was revealed.” ONCE we receive the fullness of Christ (The ARMOR OF GOD) which is the helmet of salvation, the sword of the spirit, the shield of faith, The breastplate of righteousness,The belt of truth ---all of these were brought about by the complete revealed word and works of God ; we as children of God would have the means available to keep from being deceived by the doctrines of men. (Eph 4:14) !! Again "Perfect" is neuter gender; "Christ" is always masculine gender. Scripture does not say, "when He who is perfect comes" but "when THAT" which is perfect comes refers to a thing, not a person and certainly not Christ. Jesus is a person, not a thing!!!!!!

Lets put this issue to rest.............
Supernaturally revealed knowledge- prophesy, and tongues, were tools used to build Gods church. Once that church is built to its completion, those tools are put away and no longer used. by the way... Read 1 Cor 13:8 again. Now for those charismatics who think PERFECT is heaven- If tongue speakers are correct that the perfect is heaven , Why would God bother telling mankind that tongues would cease when were DEAD and gone to heaven? According to tongue speakers, we will be dead here on Earth when the Perfect comes !!!!!! OUR FLESH and our TONGUEs will have rotted back to the dust !!! God was telling us that there will soon be a time that tongues will cease !!!!
ps . Take note, these 3 and only 3 gifts were to cease, not the other spiritual gifts we are to seek and desire. ((Lets keep studying)) !

Why Tongues Ceased - another lesson why tongues have ceased.
God never intended the gift of speaking in tongues to continue indefinitely. Paul expressly wrote, "tongues shall cease" (I Corinthians.13:8). The evangelistic endeavor that established the early church all over the Mediterranean world was carried out under the leadership of the apostles. The apostolic prophetic offices were revelatory (Ephesians.3:5). This is to say, during the period in which the New Testament was being written, apostles and prophets received truth directly from God. Apostles were sent off with the gospel, while prophets seem to have been apostolic assistants. The revelation that they received was recorded in the books we call the New Testament. Not only did miraculous gifts enable apostles to preach in many languages they did not know ,but these gifts also attested to their apostolic commission (II Corinthians.12:12) just as miraculous deeds attested to Jesus' evangelistic work (Acts.2:22). Moreover, by extraordinary gifts, God confirmed the apostles writings (Hebrews.2:2-4). When the writing of the Scriptures was completed, their authorship needed no further confirmation !!!! It was during the laying of the foundations of the church that miraculous gifts were needed. The offices of apostle and prophet, with whom God deposited these gifts, ceased when that foundation was laid. This is clear from Ephesians.2:20. A foundation is laid at the beginning only; it does not extend up the walls or into the roof!
When Paul said special gifts were "the signs of a true apostle", he surely implied that not all Christians had them. It was only the apostles, and those to whom they imparted them (Acts.19:6 and 7; Romans.1:11), who possessed these gifts. Suppose I were to say "Our church meets in a house in the 200 block of Central Avenue - you can't miss it; just look for the sign." But, when you arrived, every house looked alike and all had the same sign! Then the sign would be useless; it would no longer be good for anything . If after Jewish and Gentile Pentecosts (Acts.2:10), when the Holy Spirit came directly, gifts were mediated only by the Apostles (Acts.8:17,18; ACTS 19:6,7), then, they would indeed be a sign of a true apostles (II Corinthians.12:12). But only so. If anyone could himself obtain gifts from God, apart from apostles, then tongues would be no more a sign to help you identify a true apostle than the all those signs on Central Avenue !!!
Signs and wonders belonged to the foundation period of the church - - a period, presumably, that those who teach otherwise (ex. Pentecostal and Holiness churches) seem not to recognize (even though Paul clearly alludes to it in Ephesian.2:20) !!
They have no more place in the church today than newly revealed Scripture today ( TAKE NOTE FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN PROPHETS OF TODAY). You may assume, therefore, that no matter how well-meaning persons who claim the gift of tongues may be, they have deceived themselves about it. Do not be taken in by their sincerity or the "heavenly gibberish" that they may seem to speak. Im sure their experience is genuine to them, but its not scriptural. Pray for them. Ask them to listen to scripture. Ask them to learn with you. Dont share experiences, feelings or church doctrine. These things change and can be corrupted. Stick to scripture, it does not change and its perfectly true. God even said Jer:17:9: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? . With this said why would you trust your heart over scripture? Focus your attention on the Scriptures and the One of Whom they speak. In Him alone, is the mighty power of God deposited and displayed.........not tongue speakers. ( Are yall tired yet? Weve got so much more to study) !!

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Another dangerous consideration when believing that MORE prophecy and knowledge will be revealed AFTER the completion of scripture is to break the rule Gods given in his Word NOT To ADD to the prophecies of his books ! “Do not add to the word of Revelation” is a warning from the Bible that appears in Revelation 22:18. The warning is against altering the text of the book of Revelation in any way. When you say God has revealed more prophecy, your claiming that there is more TEXT that belongs in the bible. If God needed more TEXT in the bible there would be MORE TEXT.... guaranteed !! 2 Peter 1:2,3 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: / Look close ! Notice" In the KNOWLEGE and through the Knowledge. And 2 Peter 1:4 puts icing on the cake- Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And verses 5,6 and 7 continue to refer to knowledge though Gods revealed Word- And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.( love). When Gods revealed knowledge is in " part or incomplete" those precious promises that lead us to his divine nature fall short because " all of them " had yet to be revealed in its entirety.
To sum all of this up, we really dont even need to resort to the bible to understand 1 Cor 13:8. We can make an accurate conclusion by simply viewing what is going on in the world today concerning prophecies and tongues. No one today is seeing speaking in biblical tongues.. NO ONE. Its all fake because no one is speaking them according to biblical rules laid out . NEVER seen one example of biblical tongues spoken according to bible rules on the internet and off. Why do missionaries resort to interpreters or learn the language themselves if miraculous tongues were still in affect today ?
And prophecies.... dangerous to even go there since the Word of God says not to add to His Word. When you claim to have a word from God you have ( according to scripture ) just admitted that the bible is the incomplete word of God. Imagine if Got Questions was correct and prophecies and knowledge have not ceased. Wouldnt those claimed prophets be known the world over for their consistent and accurate prophecies ? But there are none !!
Please GQ, change your stance on 1 Cor 13:8
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notes from my recorder.
1, For those that think there is more prophecy to be revealed , more knowledge to be revealed , than you have to figure out how to remove Gods curse on adding to his word.
2,. Gifts of apostolic healing. They dont exist today. NEVER seen any verifiable miracle on or off the internet. If such healings were the norm today like those who claim tongues and prophecy are, they would be abundantly seen..... but there not.
3. still adding to this work