photo sharing and upload picture albums photo forums search pictures popular photos photography help login
Dave Berry | all galleries >> Galleries >> Vietnam War '67 - '68 > Black Lions Battalion Command, late '67
previous | next

Black Lions Battalion Command, late '67

An archive photo of 2/28th command in mid-to-late 1967. Someone annotated the photo with information regarding the fates of those in the photograph. As you can see, of the 7 officers in this photograph, 3 were killed in action and at least 2 of the others wounded at least once. One of the company commanders under whom I served in 2/2nd Mech was killed (Cpt. Joe Rose) and a second was badly wounded and disabled (Cpt. Sonny Gratzer). The casualty rate among platoon leaders was also high. That should dispell the idea that infantry officers were any safer than their men.


other sizes: small medium large original auto
share
Guest 24-Jan-2017 07:01
Hello Dave! Great pictures! I am Chaplain Clemmons (Daring 19ler and Dauntless 19ler). Iknew you and many of the people in your pictures. Thank you. I followed Chaplain Koninenbelt (spelling is off). My base camp hooch behind the 2/28 O club was blown up during the 1968 (first TetOffensive). I was with CPT Kizer when he was killed. (Friendly fire; artillery air bursts). I look forward to following this blog or whatever you call it.
Bless you!

p.s. CPT George Gratzer Bandit 6 of 2/2 just passed away in Missoula, MT, 6 Dec 2016.
Treadhead68 20-Jun-2015 22:43
Reply to Guest talking about Capt. Keizer and when men usually left the field when going home. There were usually an unofficial date someone would be brought in from the field for his clearing post and the letter chance of surviving the last few days, in the rear with the gear. If someone didn't want to leave the field early, then he wasn't required to do so. Sometimes, as in the TET OFFENSIVE, people could be kept in the field up to the day they lead to leave for his battalion base camp, which usually meant the soldier only had two or three more days left in his tour. I had come in the customary two weeks prior to going home, but the s-it was so tight then,that the day after I got in the rear, I was recalled to the boonies and left again when I was down to three days before I was scehduled to depart the RVN.
I know, that was long winded to just say it was up to the individual, most of the time.
Guest 13-Sep-2014 21:18
What a shame reading some of these comments in regards to Officers/NCOs percentages of who had more casualties. In the end people are gone and hurtful memories are present.My father is Capt.Kizer /KIA. He had three days left before he was to leave and go home. Wasnt there a standing order for someone so short not to go out on a mission? Or was it the integrity and type of man that he was that brought him to lead his men during that particular day of his death. I could go on and on yet I think I will just let this rest hopefully with my point made.
Marvin Wilson 28-Mar-2012 20:30
Look up Ambush T xt 686576 From Project contemparary historical evaluation of combat operations report. Read that and you will see why it went down the way it did. I was there with c/co/ that to come and give cover fire so a/d/ hq. could get out.
Tom Briggs15-Feb-2012 19:40
Dave, let me add my perspective to this string of comments vis-a-vis awarding of medals and citations. It is a fact that more officers and NCO's receive medals for valor (Bronze Stars w/V device and Silver Stars) than do 'the grunts' ... and I think this is because the professional soldier knows that these medals are important career rungs and thus are quicker to recommend a fellow career member for such an award (... you need look no further than Sen John Kerry and his Silver Star(s) as to their 'merit'). Whether they're deserving or not, though, is probably not the issue here but, rather, the 'system' is the issue. I'm also convinced that an 'act of bravery' is not always the same ... that it might be significantly different for a PFC who rushes a machine-gun nest and a Company Commander who holds his men in position under extremely adverse conditions. Both take tremendous courage and conviction ... both are extremely different ... and both may well deserve a medal. I'm also certain 'the systen' is the same today as it was in VN and I'm equally certain that it's the same in ANY army. C'est la vie; c'est la guerre.
Long Bach Nguyen03-Feb-2011 06:16
Dave,
Excellent details and information about these Officers and their extraordinary works during the war. Thanks for the great history lesson. Long
Guest 02-Nov-2010 02:26
Dave you are right on every aspect of your posting.
Guest 02-Nov-2010 02:23
I totally agree with Dave Berry on this issue. He is so right. If General Hay gave himself the Silver Star Medal for Gallantry in Saigon on October 17, 1967 then everyone who actually was on site during this battle, in the field, deserves the Medal of Honor.
I recommend Dave for the first MOH for having the testosterone to call it the way it actually is and was.Black Lions!
Dave Berry13-Dec-2008 10:28
I have to weigh in on the subject of casualties by agreeing to disagree with my friend Gerry Grosso, who was a company commander (and seriously wounded) with the Black Lions in Vietnam. I haven't studied casualty rates so I am at a disadvantage, but my observation was that a lot of the lieutenants and captains became casualties at some point in their tours. Although the volume of casualties was definitely on the enlisted side, the percentage might have been lower in the actual combat units simply because there was only one officer per platoon and one captain for the line company.

Where I saw and felt there was a serious discrepancy was in the awarding of decorations for valor, in which the officers and senior NCOs were at the front of the line. I don't think that has changed through the years. I was no longer in Vietnam when General Ware was killed but was when he took command. He was highly respected as a leader and his loss was a blow to the division and to the Army. His predecessor, MG John Hay, was less troop-oriented. When David Maraniss researched "They Marched Into Sunlight", among his findings was the fact that MG Hay received a Silver Star Medal for the Battle of Ong Thanh, despite the fact that he was in Saigon when the battle was raging, arrived late in the day, and did not take a leadership role in the battle, let alone demonstrate personal valor. That is a slap in the face to every soldier who was out there.
gerard grosso 12-Dec-2008 04:16
1st Lt Brad Boehm on the far right is noted as KIA but with no date. At the time of the photo, Brad was Bn supply officer, I believe. He later became a platoon leader in my company, Delta. He was killed in an ambush by a claymore mine and small arms fire on, I believe, January 8, 1968. A nice guy and a good officer.
The below post is mine also.
Guest 12-Dec-2008 03:55
Well, not to obsess on this subject of combat casualty rates in the infantry, but I believe the facts of the matter have actually been both clear and pretty stable over all of our modern wars (I haven't recently 'researched' this but it's my recollection of seeing the actual data before). The casualty rate among the category 'enlisted men' is always higher than among the category 'officers'. On the other hand, the casualty rate among the category 'junior officers'(i.e. Lts and Cpt) has always been significantly higher than among 'enlisted men'. I'm sure the reason is obvious to all and I suppose the strength of this phenomena over time might also suggest the theory that ground combat never really changes in its basics, even in 'VN and Iraq' etc (Frankly, I think those two conflicts are quite 'different' from each other - just as I think all wars are. But all are also the same.)
Less obvious, perhaps, is the apparent fact that the ratio of killed to wounded has changed dramatically in our recent combat experience of Iraq - the overall casualty rate is apparently similar to VN, eg, but there are significantly more WIA than KIA in that rate. The conventional wisdom seems to ascribe this to advances in medical tecniques and body armor. I'm sure this is part of it but can't help but think that the nature of enemy ordinance/tactics has a lot to do with that also - i.e, a huge proportion of casualties in iraq are due to IED's.
Sidebar: there was an unusually high rate of casualties among senior officers in VN, eg, General rank. I assume the reason is the high use of helicopters as 'cp's' which put them close to the 'front' and more exposed. For example, Gen Keith Ware (a medal of honor winner in WWII I believe), the Commanding General of the 1st Inf Div, was killed when his chopper was shot down in 1968. As another sidebar, I personally don't think they accomplished much flying around up there but I'm sure it made them feel good. Another way of putting all this is that, in a combat zone the risks may be 'equally shared' but the outcomes are definitely not.
Tom Briggs17-Mar-2008 01:32
Thanx for posting this one, Dave, and for the comments. Junior officers, of course, are more at risk than senior officers but in engagements such as Vietnam and now Iraq, where 'front lines' don't exist, I think the personal risks of a combat zone are ever present and, to a great degree, equally shared.
Type your message and click Add Comment
It is best to login or register first but you may post as a guest.
Enter an optional name and contact email address. Name
Name Email
help private comment