Noah's Ark Replica Schagen Netherlands Photo Gallery by PaultheDane at pbase.com

Noah's Ark Replica Schagen Netherlands

Replica of Noah's Ark built by a Dutch contractor, Johan Huibers.
It was built approximately to scale, however is 1/2 the length and 1/3 the width of the Biblical dimensions. It was built to show the world how massive the Ark was and how so many animals could have been housed for a long time. It was built in smaller scale so it would be able to travel around Europe, navigating the canals, bridges, and rivers en route.
There have been several comments on the improbability of getting 2 of every animal onboard the Ark. Take a look at this website http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html . Briefly... The Ark had the same capacity as more than 500 train boxcars. Remember, not all animals needed to be full grown, not every variation of every genus. Also remember that not every variant of every genus was required onboard as their variant species would be produced over the years. Also, check out http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp . Consider all the facts, the 1.5million cubic feet of space on the ark, 40,000 animals, and it makes a lot more sense than the little 4-animal arks you see in pictures and toys. This thing was massive and amazingly effective as a safe haven for thousands of plants and animals.
Also, for more information you can go to the ark's official website http://www.arkvannoach.com .

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Noah's Ark Holland 09	Noah's Ark Holland 10	Noah's Ark Holland 11	Noah's Ark Holland 12
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WAYNEW		22-Oct-2008 14:13
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen... A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: 'I don't believe that God exists.' 'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.' The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: 'You know what? Barbers do not exist.' 'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!' 'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.' 'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.' 'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.' (WE MUST GO TO THE LORD TO KNOW HE EXIST, IT IS THAT SIMPLE) BUT JUST BECAUSE SOME ONE DOES NOT GO TO HIM DOES NOT MEAN HE DOES NOT EXIST. HE JUST REFUSES GOD'S HELP. PROVERBS 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: 26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; 27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: 29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: 30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. 33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

WAYNEW		22-Oct-2008 13:52
WELL, JELPY. YOUR DONE., YOU LOST. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR YOUR STUPID, GODLESS, NO IQ REMARKS OF LIES AND DECEIT ANYMORE. WE ARE HEADS UP, NOT MY BROTHER, AND YOU UNTIL YOU ACCEPT CHRIST AS SAVIOR ARE STILL DOOMED FOR HELL. I WILL NOT POST ANYMORE MESSAGES UNLESS SOMEONE BESIDES YOU POST. AS LONG AS IT IS JUST YOU YOU WILL CONTINUE TO BEAT YOUR FIST AGAINST THE FREE AIR GOD GAVE YOU. SO HAVE AT IT FOOL. WAYNEW I WILL VIEW THE SITE DAILY TO KEEP A WATCHFUL EYE OUT FOR MY LOVING LORD GOD WHO USED YOU AND PLAYED YOU LIKE THE MEANINGLESS TOY YOU ARE. YOU ARE JUST A VAPOR, A MIST, POOF AND YOU ARE GONE DEAD FOREVER AND NO ONE WILL REMEMBER EVEN YOUR NOT REAL NAME. TOO BAD SO SAD YOU ARE A PATHETIC NOTHING AND ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE TO THIS POINT. YOU WASTED ALL GOD GAVE YOU. MY AREN'T WE PROUD OF OURSELVES? GOD STILL AWAITS WITH HIS LOVING ARMS TO FORGIVE YOU, LOVE YOU, AND BLESS YOU. Ps 74:10 O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the ENEMY BLASPHEME THY NAME FOREVER? Mr 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath NEVER forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. IT MAY BE TOO LATE AS IT HAS BEEN AND IS FOR MANY AND SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL CONTINUE TO BLASPHEME AND DIE IN YOUR MISERABLE STATE BUT IF THERE IS ONE CHANCE LEFT FOR THE LORD'S MERCY, GO TO HIM TODAY, FALLING UPON YOUR KNEES, BEG HIM TO FORGIVE YOU AND FEEL HIS HOLY SPIRIT RUSH INTO YOUR VEINS WITH NEW BLOOD FROM JESUS, A COMPLETE BLOOD TRANSFUSION AND SEE WHAT THE LORD HAS DETERMINED FOR YOU BEFORE THIS WORLD WAS EVER CREATED BY HIM. HE LOVED YOU BEFORE YOU WERE EVER FORMED BY HIS OWN HANDS IN YOUR MOTHER'S WOMB. I AM SORRY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH YOUR DAD BUT YOU CANNOT BLAME GOD BECAUSE IT IS PEOPLE WHO ARE TO BLAME NOT THE LORD. HE IS YOUR ONLY HOPE. DO NOT DELAY.

WAYNEW		22-Oct-2008 00:19
1Co 12:3 WHEREFORE I GIVE UNTO YOU TO UNDERSTAND, THAT NO MAN SPEAKING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD CALLETH JESUS ACCURSED: AND THAT NO MAN CAN SAY THAT JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST. HOW SIMPLE IT IS TO UNDERSTAND JELPY'S IGNORANCE AND INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE INFALLIBLE POWERFUL WORD OF GOD BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST ENDWELLING WITH IN HIM. IN THIS RESPECT OF COURSE HIS IQ IS NIL AND HE IS VOID OF ANY TRUTH. MANY ARE RETARDED AS IS JELPY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT INVITED THE HOLY GHOST TO COME IN TO THEIR HEART. A DEAD PERSON CANNOT UNDERSTAND AND OF COURSE ALL WHO ARE NOT BORN OF THE GHOLY GHOST ARE DEAD. ONLY THOSE OF US WHO ARE ALIVE CAN UNDERSTAND THE LOVE OF GOD AND HIS PERFECTION. SO HERE AGAIN WE SEE JELPY PASTING SOME STORY FROM ANOTHER DEAD SOURCE TO PROVE AGAIN HOW TRUE AND POWERFUL GOD'S WORD IS. HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW THESE LAWS WERE WRITTEN TO THE JEWS ONLY AND NOT TO GENTILES BECAUSE THE STORY HE PASTED LEFT THAT FACTOR OUT. THERE IS NOT A SUCH A THING AS HALF LIES OR HALF TRUTHS SO WHEN EVER SOMEONE CAN ONLY PASTE HALF THE FACTS IT CAUSES THE ENTIRE MESSAGE TO BE A LIE AND AGAIN PROVING THE TRUTH THAT GOD'S WORD IS INFALLIBLE AND UNDISPUTED. IT IS GREAT TO SEE AND READ WITH OUR OWN EYES THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD THRU FOOL'S WHO SAY THERE IS NO GOD BECAUSE IN TRYING TO PROVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST THEY CONTINUE TO PROVE ONLY HE DOES AND THEY CANNOT TOLERATE THE FACT HE DOES. JELPY CONTINUES MORE AND MORE TO LIFT UP THE NAME OF GOD BY BEING SO CONSISTENT IN FUTILE ATTEMPTS. HOW CAN WE NOT BE THANKFUL GOD USES SUCH FOOLERY TO EXALT THE NAME OF CHRIST OUR LORD. THANK YOU JESUS AGAIN AND MAY YOU BE CONTINUALLY LIFTED UP BY SUCH FOOLS. WAYNEW

JELPY		21-Oct-2008 23:15
UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE (PART 1/2) (As found here http://tinyurl.com/undrstd-bible) In this article, I would like to help you see the Bible from a fresh perspective. Let's try to look at the Bible as though you have never seen it before. Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking: Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading! You: What's it about? Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life! You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it? Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe. You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you? Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself... You open the book to a random page, and you find this: Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech. If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them. If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father�s wife has uncovered his father�s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20] You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment. You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual. Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply. You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book? Me: Well, parts of it do apply. You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply? You open the book to another random page and you

JELPY		21-Oct-2008 23:14
(UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE - PART 2/2) find this: When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master�s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, �I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person�, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money. Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution. Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death. Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death. When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery. When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner�s property. [Exodus, chapter 21] Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment. You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves. You open the book to another random page and you find this: I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2] You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice. You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced. As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end. You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong. If you are a scientist it is even worse, and it starts with the very first line: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... That's not true. In the beginning a natural event created the universe as we know it, and the earth did not form until billions of years later. The creation story in Genesis is completely wrong. Simply read Genesis and you can see it. For example, the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first, then the planet and its rotation (which is what causes light and darkness to occur on a daily basis) and then the water, and this all happened over million of years. There are many other problems with the Bible: Man did not come from a handful of dust through some mythological being. Man evolved from other species like every other living thing has for hundreds of millions of years. The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record. There was no tower of Babble. The list goes on and on. The Bible is nonsense in a thousand different scientific ways. Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet? Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you would look at the Bible fresh, and read what it actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today. It is time for us to recognize this simple fact. (As found here http://tinyurl.com/undrstd-bible) .

WAYNEW		21-Oct-2008 02:09
THIS IS A WONDERFUL EXAMPLE OF THE TRUTH IN GOD'S WORD SHOWING US GOD'S PERFECTION.

WAYNEW		20-Oct-2008 03:09
IT IS ALL VERY SIMPLE TO EVEN THE LITTLE CHILDREN WHO BELIEVE IN THE LORD. IF SOMEONE DOES NOT EXIST NO ONE WOULD KNOW TO TRY AND PROVE HE DOES NOT EXIST. THE APPLE THEORY IS SO SIMPLE. IF AN APPLE DID NOT AND NEVER HAS EXISTED NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE APPLE TO PROVE IT DOES NOT EXIST. SO IF GOD DID NOT EXIST WHY OR HOW WOULD ANYONE KNOW TO PROVE HE DOES NOT EXIST. THAT IS THE REASON THAT JELPY HAS PROVED WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT GOD DOES EXIST AS HE IS SPENDING HOURS UPON HOURS TO PROVE HE DOES NOT EXIST. WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT IN PROVING SOME ONE DOES NOT EXIST IF THEY DID NOT EXIST? SO HERE AGAIN THANKS OF GRATITUDE ARE IN ORDER AS ONE AS JELPY SPENDS HOURS UPON HOURS PROVING GOD'S VERY EXISTENCE IN HIS FUTILE ATTEMPTS TO PROVE HE DOES NOT. WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF TRYING TO PROVE OUR LOVING GOD DOES NOT EXIST ANYWAY? HOW MUCH MORE SENSIBLE TO PROVE HE DOES EXIST WHEN SO MANY ARE HURTING FROM TIMES LIKE THESE WHERE ALL HOPE SEEMS LOST. WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO HURT US MORE BY TRYING TO PROVE THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVES AND WILL HELP US DOES NOT EXIST. TO HAVE HOPE IS OUR ONLY RESOURCE. JELPY WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HURT SO MANY PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ENCOURAGE THEM TO BE HAPPY? IT IS NOT BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT EXIST IT IS BECAUSE HE DOES EXIST AND YOU HATE HIM FOR EXISTING. NO ONE FEELS SORRY FOR A FOOL WHEN HE CONTINUES TO BE A FOOL FOR GOD AND A WHORE FOR THE DEVIL. YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE AND ASK FOR. YOU WANT HELL AND THEREFORE YOU WILL BE CAST INTO OUTER DARKNESS AND HELL'S FIRE FOREVER, IT IS YOUR CHOICE AND NO ONE CAN CHANGE THAT BUT YOU. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REMAIN A STUPID FOOL. WAYNEW

WAYNEW		20-Oct-2008 02:41
YOU SEE JELPY HAS DONE IT AGAIN TO PROVE GOD EXIST AS HE HAS GIVEN PART OF MY TESTIMONY SO PROMPTING ME TO FINISH THE REST OF IT. I DID ADMIT DOING DRUGS AND CURSING GOD UNTIL HE LOVINGLY CAME AND WRAPPED HIS LOVING ARMS AROUND ME AND TOOK ME UP FROM THE SCUM PIT I WAS IN AS JELPY IS IN AND I TOLD JELPY THIS TO TRY AND CONVINCE HIM TO BE SAVED AND I TOLD HIM I LOVED HIM IN THE LORD AND WANTED HIM TO GO TO HEAVEN BUT I ALSO TOLD HIM IF HE KEPT TRAMPLING UNDER HIS FEET THE BLOOD OF MY JESUS I WOULD LAUGH WHEN GOD THRU HIM IN HELL. THANK YOU AGAIN NOT MY BROTHER JELPY FOR BRINGING IN SUCH A POWERFUL REMINDING TESTIMONY OF GOD'S GRACE. HERE AGAIN YOU PROVE GOD'S EXISTENCE AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF HIS EXISTENCE BY BEING OVERWHELMED HE CAN EVEN CHANGE AN X GOD CURSING GOD HATER LIKE MYSELF. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO WITHOUT YOU ON THIS SITE WHAT A WITNESS YOU ARE TO REMEMBER GOD'S POWERFUL LOVE TO CHANGE EVEN A RAT AND X FOOL AND X GODHATER AS I ONCE WAS. YOU DID FORGET TO TELL THEM NOW FOR OVER 25 YEARS I HAVE PREACHED AND SUNG THE GOSPEL ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THOUSANDS IN THIS COUNTRY AND OTHER COUNTRIES AND IN PRISONS AND HIGH SCHOOL AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND IN TENT REVIVALS THAT WERE ONCE LOST ARE NOW SAVED AND ENJOYING ETERNAL LIFE. HOW THANKFUL I AM YOU BROUGHT THIS BACK UP AS I HATE TO BE REDUNDANT BUT SINCE YOU WANTED EVERYONE TO BE REMINDED AND THOSE WHO HAVE NOT HEARD MY TESTIMONY NOW KNOW ALL I POSTED. DON'T YOU SEE HOW GOD HAS PLAYED YOUR EVERY MOVE? THE LORD HAD ME QUIET FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AWAITING HIS UNIQUE TIMING TO HAVE MY TESTIMONY POSTED AGAIN TO SOME ONE THAT NEEDED TO HEAR WHAT A GORGIVING MERCIFUL GOD HE IS AND IT TOOK YOU, HIS FAITHFUL WITNESS TO BRING IT ALL BACK TO LIGHT. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK FOR THE LORD. MANY WILL COME TO KNOW HIM THRU YOU. IT IS TOO BAD IN HELL YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE THE CREDIT AS HE WILL NOT KNOW YOU NOR HEAR YOUR FOOL BLASPMING MOUTH THEN. YOU WILL REMEMBER EVERY ATTEMPT EVERYONE MADE ON THIS SITE TO LOVE YOU AND BEG YOU TO BE SAVED BUT WE WILL NOT EVEN REMEMBER YOUR SORRY CARCASE BURNING IN FIRE FOREVER. ANYONE THAT BLASPHEMES MY FATHER IN HEAVEN AS YOU ARE DOING KNOWING HE DOES EXIST INFURIATES ME FOR SURE BUT THE LORD ASK ME TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE BEING SUCH A GREAT WITNESS FOR HIM EVERYTIME YOU POST TO CONTINUE FOR HE IS THE ONE PUSHING YOU TO DO IT. IF YOU WILL READ IN EXODUS GOD DID THAT TO PHARAOH...Ex 10:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:" YOU SEE FOOL THE LORD HAS HARDENED YOUR HEART AGAINST HIM BECAUSE OF YOUR HATE FOR HIM AND IS USING YOU LIKE A WHORE TO PROVE MORE THAN ANY OF US GOD DOES EXIST AS HE CAN SHOW YOU ALL THESE SIGNS BEFORE YOU HE LOVES YOU AND WANTS TO SAVE YOU BUT SINCE YOU DENIED HIS LOVE HE IS NOW CAUSING YOU TO BE HIS BEST WITNESS. THE MORE YOU BLASPHEME, THE MORE YOU TRY AND PROVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST THE MORE YOU PROVE HE DOES AND THAT IS WEHY YOU ARE SO ANGRY IS BECAUASE GOD IS DETERMINING EVERYTHING YOU SAY AND DO TO BENEFIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THERE ARE JUST NO REWARDS IN HELL. WHY DON'T YOU WORK WILLINGLY FOR HIM AND RECEIVE THE GREATEST REWARDS IN HEAVEN. QUIT BEING A FOOL FOR BOTH SIDES AS THE DEVIL HAS PLAYED YOU FOR A FOOL TOO. O ME! TOO BAD SO SAD, ONCE A FOOL I GUESS ALWAYS A FOOL BUT KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MANY WILL COME TO KNOW OUR PRECIOUS LORD BECAUSE OF YOUR FOOLISH LIES AND ATTEMPTED DECEIT. WAYNEW THANK YOU LORD YOUR PERFECT WILL IS BEING DONE EVEN THRU A FOOL.

JELPY		20-Oct-2008 02:20
************************************************************************************************************ Joseph, Linda, and others, Please demonstrate with facts, only objective facts that: 1) biblegod/Jesus is true and exists, 2) while all the other gods are fake: like Krishna, Jupiter, Osiris, Quetzalcoatl, Shiva, etc. You can't use your hole-y bible scriptures to prove biblegod, just like Hindus can't use their Hindu religious texts to prove Krishna, etc. THIS IS CIRCULAR FALLACY!! BUT do answer ONLY if you have facts, objective facts that yahweh/Jesus is true and real and all the while the other gods are fake!! However, if you fail to bring objective facts to demonstrate 1) the existence of Jesus/yahweh and 2) all the while the other gods are fake, then this will be the best proof that YOUR FAKE GOD IS NO DIFFERENT than the 10,000 man-fabricated gods and goddesses that were man-invented thruout the world and history!!!! (And when you will understand WHY YOU REJECT all those 10,000!!! fake and forged deities, you will understand the disbelievers' reasons for rejecting just one more god than you do!!) JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS Evil!!! Or he doesn't exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		20-Oct-2008 01:32
************************************************************************************************************ Waynew, in your message dated: 18-Oct-2008 14:56 you said: "WON'T SEE YOU IN HEAVEN EITHER, NOT YOUR BROTHER, , BUT WE WILL BE RID OF YOUR SORRY CARCASE VERY SOON AND I WILL LAUGH AND SHOUT GLORY TO GOD WHEN HE THROWS YOUR STINKING LYING FOOL SELF IN THE PITS OF FIREY HELL AND YOU WILL BE REMEMBERED NO MORE. WAYNEW" ---> A pretty drastic, 180� U turn from your relatively recent message: ------------------------------------------------ WAYNE 30-Aug-2008 00:07 JELPY, THE SAD PART IS ALL OF US LOVE YOU IN THE LORD JESUS AND ALL WE WANT IS YOU TO GO TO HEAVEN WITH US ------------------------------------------------ -----*YOU'RE A DAMNED LYING HYPOCRITE WAYNEW!!!!!!*----- ************************************************************************************************************ .

JELPY		20-Oct-2008 00:01
************************************************************************************************************** -----------------------CONGRATULATIONS WAYNE !!!----------------------- ---------------#### YOU ARE A CERTIFIED MORON!!! ####--------------- (That's your second win after the "CRACKPOT OF THE YEAR 2008" title awarded you less than 2 months ago!!) In your message dated: 18-Oct-2008 14:56 you said: "THANK JELPY AND THE OTHER STUPID FOOL'S FOR BEING SO FAITHFUL IN PROVING GOD EXIST FROM THE VERY FACT IN ORDER TO REJECT ANYTHING OR ANYONE THEY HAVE TO FIRST EXIST." and "HOW CAN ONE HATE SOMEONE LEST THEY TRULY EXIST." If we are to follow your extremely insane reasoning then Osiris, Jupiter and Krishna DO exist since YOU reject them!!! Right?!! Since you don't believe in Osiris, Jupiter and Krishna that means you reject them, therefore according to your moronic affirmation they DO exist, right?! In your message dated: 18-Oct-2008 14:56 you said: "LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE JELPY HAS BROUGHT TO GOD'S DEFENCE ON THIS SITE WITH SCRIPTURES AND PERSONAL UNDENIABLE TESTIMONY" Remotely far from undeniable, all they are is void and useless subjective information; so worthless that they are absolutely undistinguishable from accounts by believers of contradicting faiths like Hindus', Jainists', Shintoists', etc. In factit's so unreliable and hopless that no sensible person would bet their entire life (style) on this!!! I've said it time and time again, but you stubborn fools don't want to hear it!!! And to paraphrase you Waynew: "I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE VERY THANKFUL FOR SUCH A WONDERFUL AND POWERFUL EXAMPLE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER DO DRUGS!!! LIKE YOU DO WAYNEW!!!!!" This is no secret as you admitted it publicly HERE on this page () that YOU DO EVERY KIND OF HARD DRUGS you can shove up your insatiable veins, right?!!! Here is an excerpt of what you published on 04-Sep-2008 15:38: "I INTRAVENUOSLY USED ANYTHING THAT WOULD MELT DOWN IN A SPOON, CURSED GOD DAILY." JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS* Evil!!! Or he doesn't exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!*" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************ .

WAYNEW		19-Oct-2008 13:46
MORE TRIBUTE SHOULD BE GIVEN TO JELPY BECAUSE HE GIVES CREDIT TO GOD FOR MURDERING PEOPLE, SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL, CAUSING WARS, AND FLOODING, AND HURRICANES, AND MANY EARTHLY DISASTERS. THEN HE DISCREDITS HIM FOR DOING THEM. NOW LET US ASK OURSELVES A SIMPLE QUESTION. HOW COULD GOD NOT EXIST BUT AT THE SAME TIME BRING ALL THESE EVENTS TO PASS? HOW GREAT AND FANTASTIC GOD IS BY USING SUCH AN IGNORANT, NO IQ FOOL TO PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT GOD EXIST. IT IS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR US WHO KNOW THE LORD PERSONALLY TO CONVINCE ANYONE GOD EXIST AS WE HAVE WELL SEEN ON THIS SITE BUT GOD PUTS FOOLS ON THIS SITE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS THEM TO DO AND PROVE HIS EXISTENCE. JELPY ET AL WHO BLASHEME GOD.YOU HAVE PLAYED RIGHT INTO THE LORD'S LOVING ARMS AND HE HAS PLAYED YOU THE STUPID FOOL YOU ARE. Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. BUT WE ALL CAN WELL SEE JELPY AND HIS AKA'S AND FOLLOWERS HAVE BEEN MOCKED BY GOD HIMSELF. JELPY, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU POSTED YOURSELF BLASHEMING GOD? WELL, YOU FOOL, HOW CAN YOU BLASPHEME GOD IF HE DOES NOT EXIST. THE VERY FACT YOU CALL YOURSELF A BLASPEMER PROVES NOT ONLY DOES GOD EXIST BUT YOU HATE AND REJECT HIM AS WELL AGAIN PROVING HE EXIST. DO YOU REALIZE THAT EVERY POST YOU WRITE PROVES THAT MUCH MORE THAT OUR GOD DOES EXIST AND HE HAS PLAYED YOU FOR A STUPID DUMB FOOL. HA HA HA ON YOU, AND KEEP ON POSTING FOR YOU HAVE BECOME HIS BEST WITNESS. HOW CAN WE THANK YOU ENOUGH? WON'T SEE YOU IN HEAVEN EITHER, NOT YOUR BROTHER, , BUT WE WILL BE RID OF YOUR SORRY CARCASE VERY SOON AND I WILL LAUGH AND SHOUT GLORY TO GOD WHEN HE THROWS YOUR STINKING LYING FOOL SELF IN THE PITS OF FIREY HELL AND YOU WILL BE REMEMBERED NO MORE. WAYNEW

WAYNEW		18-Oct-2008 14:56
WE SHOULD ALL BEGIN TO POST IN CAPS, THANK JELPY AND THE OTHER STUPID FOOL'S FOR BEING SO FAITHFUL IN PROVING GOD EXIST FROM THE VERY FACT IN ORDER TO REJECT ANYTHING OR ANYONE THEY HAVE TO FIRST EXIST. THE BIBLE SAYS: 1ST THESS:4:18 "IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANKS: FOR THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS CONCERNING YOU." WHEN WE REVIEW THE FACTS WE REALIZE THAT JELPY IS THE BEST WITNESS GOD IS USING TO PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT GOD EXIST. HOW CAN ONE HATE SOMEONE LEST THEY TRULY EXIST? JELPY'S VERY HATE FOR GOD IS A TRUE STAEMENT OF OUR PRECIOUS LORD'S EXISTENCE. I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE VERY THANKFUL FOR SUCH A WONDERFUL AND POWERFUL EXAMPLE OF OUR GOD USING STUPID FOOLS TO BRING GLORY AND HONOR TO HIMSELF BECUASE LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE JELPY HAS BROUGHT TO GOD'S DEFENCE ON THIS SITE WITH SCRIPTURES AND PERSONAL UNDENIABLE TESTIMONY OF HOW GOD LOVES US. THIS CAUSES ME TO REJOICE AND PRAY WITHOUT CEASING FOR THE GOOD WORK THESE FOOLS ARE DOING. LET US ALL PRAISE THE LORD. THANK YOU JELPY AGAIN! WAYNEW

WAYNEW		18-Oct-2008 14:41
I JUST WANT TO CONTINUE THANKING YOU FOR BEING SUCH A WONDERFUL WITNESS TO THE LORD OUR SAVIOR AND GOD'S EXISTENCE. YOU ARE DOING A FANTASTIC JOB AND MANY WILL COME TO BELIEVE FROM YOUR EFFORTS. GOOD GOING! IT IS SO AMAZING THAT A FOOL'S STUPID REMARKS PROVES GOD EXIST MORE THAN US WHO ARE SAVED AND WASHED IN HIS BLOOD SECURED IN HIS LOVE, BOUND BY THE TRINITY AND AWAITING THE SOON RAPTURE THAT WILL LIFT US UP UP AND AWAY FROM THE STUPID WICKED EVIL WHO REJECTED THE EXISTENT GOD YOU TESTIFY SO LARGELY ABOUT. AGAIN THANKS IS IN ORDER AND AGAIN KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK THAT CREATES MANY MORE WITNESSES OF THE LORD FROM YOUR PROVING GOD EXIST. I WON'T SEE YOU IN HELL, NOT YOUR BROYJER, WAYNEW.

JELPY		17-Oct-2008 20:39
Wayne, I've asked you thousands of times to stop writing in all caps!!!! I also told you why: it's rude, it's considered shouting and 3 it's harder to read!!! And your reasoning is getting worse by the post and it's so void, empty and stupid that I won't bother answering you again. Maybe someone newer with more patience towards you...?! By the way, any honest believer should be able to debunk your crazy apple/god comparision and the rest!! But "honest" and "believer" don't fit together at all!! Let's see if any believer can spot the fallacies in your piss poor arguments!!!!! .

WAYNEW		17-Oct-2008 20:25
IF YOU SCROLL ALL THE WAY DOWN YOU CAN PICK UP ALL COMMENTS FROM SEPT 25 OR HIT "CONTOL END" AND START AT THE BOTTOM. SOME ONE WAS PERFORMING A GOOD DEED AND TRYING TO COVE JELPY'S AND SOME OTHERS BLASPHEMING GOD AND THIS SITE PROVING GOD'S EXISTENCE.

WAYNEW		17-Oct-2008 20:15
WHEN WE REALLY THINK ABOUT IT JELPY,ET AL, AND AKA'S AND OTHER GOD JESUS REJECTING AUTHORS OF THESE COMMENTS ARE THE BEST WITNESSES OVER ALL OF US WHO KNOW THE CHRIST GOD JESUS PERSONALLY. ONE CANNOT REJECT CHRIST UNTIL HE EXIST. IF THE LORD DID NOT EXIST HE COULD NOT BE REJECTED OR BE NEEDED TO PROVEN NON-EXISTENT. THE FACT THAT SOME ON THIS SITE TRY TP PROVE HE DOES NOT EXIST ACTUALL AND FACTUALLY PROVE HE DOES AND THEY REJECT HIM. IF I AM HUNGRY FOR AN APPLE BUT ONE IS NOT AVAILABLE I DISMISS THE FACT I WANT AN APPLE BUT THE APPLE STILL EXIST. BUT IF APPLES NEVER EXISTED I WOULD NEVER HAVE A HUNGER FOR THE APPLE, THEREFORE THE APPLE IS NON EXISTENT. JELPY AND ALL THE OTHERS LIKE HIM BELIEVE WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS GOD EXIST BECAUSE OF THEIR DESIRE TO PROVE HE DOES NOT. WHAT GREATER PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS FROM THOSE ATTEMPTING TO PROVE HE DOES NOT. BY THEIR OWN WORDS THEY ADMIT THAT GOD DESTROYED MILLIONS IN THE FLOOD, WITH IKE AND WILL DESTROY MILLIONS BY FIRE IN HELL. HERE AGAIN HOW CAN GOD DESTROY IF HE DOES NOT EXIST? I GUESS THANKS OF GRATITUDE ARE IN ORDER. THANK YOU JELPY AND OTHER FOOLS WHO SAY IN THEIR "HEART" THERE IS NO GOD BECAUSE BY YOU OWN MESSAGES YOU HAVE PROVED TO ALL ON THIS SITE HE FACTUALLY AND ACTUALLY EXIST. CONTINUE THE GOOD WORK AS YA'LL HAVE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED ME AND MANY OTHERS GOD'S TOTAL EXISTENCE BY TRYING TO NO AVAIL PROVE HE DOES NOT. YA'LL ARE THE LORD'S BEST WITNESSES AGAIN AS EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE HAVE BROUGHT MANY WONDERFUL COUNTER WITNESSES PROVING BY OUR GOD WITH HIS OWN WORDS THAT YOU WHO HAVE REJECTED HIM ARE FOOLS AND ARE ACTUALLY DEAD AND ARE NON EXISTENT TO GOD HIMSELF. THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE WRITTEN THE TRUTH AND ESPECIALLY TO JELPY WHO HIMSELF MORE THAN ANY OTHER ONE ON THIS SITE PROVES GOD DOES EXIST BECAUSE EVEN JELPY CANNOT REJECT SOMETHING OR SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT EXIST. AGAIN THANK YOU JELPY. YOU ARE QUITE A FANTASTIC WITNESS, THOUGH STILL A BUMBLING FOOL IDIOT. NOT YOUR BROTHER WAYNEW

June		16-Oct-2008 13:08
This is an awesome display. This is a reminder of how much God loves us.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 10:08
I found this old post, way down below: I do not think Mt Faid was really that much an authority on religious issues. Robert W. Faid is an American author, numerologist and former nuclear engineer from Greenville, South Carolina. He holds a master's degree in theology from Coatesville Bible College. Faid was an agnostic in his early life and converted to Christianity after recovery from a cancer. In 1993, Faid was awarded the Ig Nobel prize for Mathematics for calculating the exact odds that Mikhail Gorbachev is the Antichrist, based on his 1988 book Gorbachev! Has the Real Antichrist Come? "I am absolutely serious about this," Faid was quoted as saying when awarded the Ig Nobel prize, "and I am surprised that people would make a joke of it. I have shown from the history of the 'kings' (general secretaries) in the Soviet Union and from the Book of Revelations [sic] that there is an 860,609,175,188, 282,100 to 1 chance that Gorbachev is the Antichrist who will return to power by overthrowing Yeltsin and who will then overwhelm the West by violence." His prediction was based on numerology involving the spelling of Gorbachev's name in several languages and combinations of the Number of the Beast, 666, with its opposite 888, the Number of Jesus. Faid is listed as the inventor on two 1977 US patents relating to improvements in the construction of concrete structures such as containment buildings for nuclear power plants. Well I guess he was a little off, huh Linda. Linda 02-Oct-2008 23:46 Jelpy, With your intellectually closed mind you might want to look up "Theomatics" @ www.theomatics.com/theomatics/home. Also research "Scientific Approach to Biblical Mysteries" written by NUCLEAR SCIENTIST "Robert W. Faid. He decided to research the stories found in the Bible to prove them wrong and the result of his investigation proves that science does not contradict the Bible, but actually SUPPORTS it!!!!

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 09:26
Geekbert and?? Just in case you can't find my last post I have reposted them here--again. I usually save what I write for a while until I delete it. The person below has tried to stop a discussion from continuing on this page. I am obviously not going to pray for him...for I think he forgot to take his medication. Here are my post that were buried below. 1.Messenger, Wrong Gender, sorry, but gender aside, gender is not the issue for me...I do not have disdain for Christians. I do have disdain for the belief in ignorant fundamentals, instead...Wow, maybe I do have disdain for Christians. Thanks for enlightening me. Actually, I know many ex-addicts who have cleaned up in 12 step programs (some of those groups end up being faith based) AA or NA are more common and are often the only treatment available....12 step spiritual programs work for some...What's not to respect about any one who can manage to stay clean. In addition to substance abuse recovery, there should be the inevitable search for the root causes of addiction...for most people the causes lie in social / environmental causes. And can most likely be seated in hyper-consumerist based society-mixed with the guilt taught in early christian teachings... that born in sin crap gets under the skin as easily as a needle. It does similar long term damage when instilled in malleable young minds....of course, there is always the well balanced citizen who makes the mistake of experimenting with crack cocaine, only to fall apart despite the well developed individuals environment. As far as those who quote from so called Holy books, a lot of Islamic fundamentalist and Christian fundamentalist memorize the whole thing...now, how is that valuable in todays world of important real choices. Praying to a entity called God is not going to change your material world one bit....might give you a bit of comfort if you realize that God is yourself and us all who share the same existence. (as in the image of Rhizome--Spinoza's type of Nominalism) 16-Oct-2008 03:4 2.Larry, If you want to make nature have a purpose then you have to think in the terms of the Philosopher George Berkeley, Bishop Berkeley as he was known in the 1700 hundreds. He advocated the ideas of "Subjective Idealism" or as some call it "Immaterialism" Primarily his theory can be summed up by that old Cliche if a tree falls in the woods...bla, bla, does any one really hear it? He would answer in a way that sounds like...since all things are only directly known by our senses through mind then any thing out side our mind is not knowable...to solve the problem of our not knowing if any thing truly exist out side our mind, Berkeley requires a God to be present as an immediate cause of all our experiences. God is not the distant engineer of Newton's science and machinery-that led to another apple of symbolic value, but rather, our perception of the tree or an object (as is nature as a whole) "is an idea that God's mind has produced in us, and the tree continues to exist in the quadrangle when "nobody" is there, simply because God is an infinite mind that perceives all" So if you want to add "good, bad or ugly" (like Eastwood's western) to natural phenomena then you need to know who to thank for already doing it for you. So what argument supersedes that one? Well I guess you can bet there are many since the seventeen hundreds that have.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 09:16
Extreme piss and vinegar is what I detect. Now pilgrim, do you feel better for what you have done? I feel that you did a good job showing all us non believers why we don't hang out with you. You probably embarrassed a lot of Christians who defend christian ethics. For I guess it is you who like to foment trouble down below your way... Still a waste of Cedar, ya think

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 08:55
Hey Guest poster Wow looks like the Taliban is here. The way you are trying to take over this sight illustrates how you are so closed minded and screwed up. The ideas that you can not bare to read are not for others. I am sure someone is recording your IP address to report you antics. You have become a spamer. Still is a silly ark.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 08:32
There is one way to beat someone who fills the page with hundreds of the same postings. On my Mac if I press the "apple" key and the letter "F" a search bar appears at the top of the screen that you can type a name into-- to search through the page with out having to carefully scroll down to find what you are looking for. I am not sure what the key combination is on a PC but on a Mac it is "apple" key + F....then type a name into the search bar at the top of the page.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 08:22
Re Revelation: Bad Christian...bad. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to clog this page.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 08:20
I think the revelation guy is a virus. in the old days he would be called a book burner.

Cindy Kopfer		16-Oct-2008 07:11
A friend of mine sent me these pictures they are totally awesome makes me think of that movie, Evan Almighty where he built that Ark, although his didn't have all the exit signs, and tv, but what you've done is great.

Revelation (chapter 19)		16-Oct-2008 07:05
Heaven Exults over Babylon 1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, �Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.� 3 Again they said, �Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!� 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, �Amen! Alleluia!� 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, �Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!� 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, �Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.� 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, �Write: �Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!�� And he said to me, �These are the true sayings of God.� 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, �See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.� Christ on a White Horse 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. The Beast and His Armies Defeated 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, �Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.� 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 07:04
Re Revelation: Do you have any original words or is plagiarism and copying text the best you can do. I bet you are smarter than what this effort shows.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 06:59
Larry, If you want to make nature have a purpose then you have to think in the terms of the Philosopher George Berkeley, Bishop Berkeley as he was known in the 1700 hundreds. He advocated the ideas of "Subjective Idealism" or as some call it "Immaterialism" Primarily his theory can be summed up by that old Cliche if a tree falls in the woods...bla, bla, does any one really hear it? He would answer in a way that sounds like...since all things are only directly known by our senses through mind then any thing out side our mind is not knowable...to solve the problem of our not knowing if any thing truly exist out side our mind, Berkeley requires a God to be present as an immediate cause of all our experiences. God is not the distant engineer of Newton's science and machinery-that led to another apple of symbolic value, but rather, our perception of the tree or an object (as is nature as a whole) "is an idea that God's mind has produced in us, and the tree continues to exist in the quadrangle when "nobody" is there, simply because God is an infinite mind that perceives all" So if you want to add "good, bad or ugly" (like Eastwood's western) to natural phenomena then you need to know who to thank for already doing it for you. So what argument supersedes that one? Well I guess you can bet there are many since the seventeen hundreds that have.

Larry Castle (geekbert)		16-Oct-2008 06:50
"What does the ecco system have to do with how incompetent President Bush is. Human nature has choices, Nature does what it does without subjective muse." The answer is "everything" from a naturalist point of view. How does the neurons in your brain firing differ from the activities of a tropical depression? It's all matter in motion. I don't have to quote anyone to make that point. Besides, I think I'd rather watch prime time television than read Freud. We could sit here and name drop (Kant, Van Til, Bahnsen) or we can think for ourselves. You know there are as many philosophers who side with each of us as differ. Pleasure principle, reality principle, so what? What makes that progression right? If mere pragmatism, then you do what works for you and I'll do what works for me. You've turned out to be quite the dogmatist, trying to force everyone to conform to your values. How much to join your cult? Carbon offset anyone?

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 06:29
Larry, If you want to make nature have a purpose then you have to think in the terms of the Philosopher George Berkeley, Bishop Berkeley as he was known in the 1700 hundreds. He advocated the ideas of "Subjective Idealism" or as some call it "Immaterialism" Primarily his theory can be summed up by that old Cliche if a tree falls in the woods...bla, bla, does any one really hear it? He would answer in a way that sounds like...since all things are only directly known by our senses through mind then any thing out side our mind is not knowable...to solve the problem of our not knowing if any thing truly exist out side our mind, Berkeley requires a God to be present as an immediate cause of all our experiences. God is not the distant engineer of Newton's science and machinery-that led to another apple of symbolic value, but rather, our perception of the tree or an object (as is nature as a whole) "is an idea that God's mind has produced in us, and the tree continues to exist in the quadrangle when "nobody" is there, simply because God is an infinite mind that perceives all" So if you want to add "good, bad or ugly" (like Eastwood's western) to natural phenomena then you need to know who to thank for already doing it for you. So what argument supersedes that one? Well I guess you can bet there are many since the seventeen hundreds that have.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 05:41
Larry G, Nature does what nature does best. It rains on our parade without notice. Hills slide when they are saturated with too much rain. What does the ecco system have to do with how incompetent President Bush is. Human nature has choices, Nature does what it does without subjective muse. If you want to read about the Pleasure principle check out freud. If you want to read about beyond the pleasure principle move on to Lacan...after you have done your home work then try talking about a subject with some foot notes in your "magic pad". Other wise you sound like a retarded arm chair Psych 101 Oprah student.

JELPY		16-Oct-2008 05:33
Larry, 1) I was generally talking about human behavior, not natural phenomenons; however, yes they obey to the very same dichotomy: disasters are bad and "wonders" are good: a nice colorful sunset, multicolored automn forest, beauty, warmth (but not too much; as we say where I live: "Too much and too little spoil the game."), etc. 2) you could certainly summerize your 4 paragraphs (in message dated 16-Oct-2008 04:34) into 4 sentences, and gain clarity; please do. .

Larry Castle (geekbert)		16-Oct-2008 05:18
Richard, your statement that "their was no evil in Katrina. Katrina was a natural weather disaster." would make sense to most people but not to Jelpy - unless there are missing qualifiers to the statement that "What brings pleasure is good, what brings pain is bad!!!" But why would you place blame on an "incompetent Bush administrations ability to rescue it's own citizens" but not on mother earth's violent treatment of it's residents? Are not both doing that which comes natural?

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 04:44
Geekbert, their was no evil in Katrina. Katrina was a natural weather disaster. The so called "evil" (which is a word that stands in for an incompetent Bush administrations ability to rescue it's own citizens.) And human ability to agree that there is a global warming problem

Larry Castle (geekbert)		16-Oct-2008 04:34
Jelpy says: "Good and bad/evil is naturally defined by one simple, even simplistic thing: the pleasure/pain dichotomy!! ... What brings pleasure is good, what brings pain is bad!!!" Sounds simple enough, I guess unless you actually try to live that way. Your examples are extremely simplistic and do not address the complicated scenarios that are typical in real life. However, I can see the value in trying to break down the complex real life situations into their basic parts and then attempting to prioritize them and act accordingly. Seems that would be necessary in other views of morality as well. What you fail to provide is any compelling reason why I should give moments thought about your happiness. It all sounds nice and right but why? I would submit that it sounds right because you are appealing to a basic element of the human nature that my worldview attempts to address and which yours denies (even mocks). That is, there is a sense of oughtness in our thinking that moral systems appeal to but for which you cannot account. I know, I know...it's the product of our species' evolution into the social creature we are today. Great, so it's a survival mechanism. Well now, that's not really morality. That's a mutation that benefits us currently. Times and environments change. Why is it that we attach moral value to actions (or dispositions) of humans but not to those animals or other matter in the universe? Seems somewhat arbitrary. Why do you express such negative emotions towards those who behave in ways you consider immoral but you do not rage against hurricane Katrina and rant about it's evil? It certainly made vast numbers of people unhappy and caused much pain. You actually expect more from people; you expect conformity to some standard. Let's call it The Happy Standard. So you don't place your cop in the sky. You place your cop (and mine) in YOUR emotions and comfort. I have to tell you that if you could convince me that I am merely a material spec appearing for an instant in the universe then you're going to have to do better than that if you want to convince me to do anything other that what I want to do right now. Having grown up in the public school system of a metro area, I can tell you from experience that the majority of my peers have concluded exactly that. Anyone who really stops to think about what you're proposing will see that the biggest scam is you trying to get animals to act like gods.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 04:28
Messenger, Wrong Gender, sorry, but gender aside, gender is not the issue for me...I do not have disdain for Christians. I do have disdain for the belief in ignorant fundamentals, instead...Wow, maybe I do have disdain for Christians. Thanks for enlightening me. Actually, I know many ex-addicts who have cleaned up in 12 step programs (some of those groups end up being faith based) AA or NA are more common and are often the only treatment available....12 step spiritual programs work for some...What's not to respect about any one who can manage to stay clean. In addition to substance abuse recovery, there should be the inevitable search for the root causes of addiction...for most people the causes lie in social / environmental causes. And can most likely be seated in hyper-consumerist based society-mixed with the guilt taught in early christian teachings... that born in sin crap gets under the skin as easily as a needle. It does similar long term damage when instilled in malleable young minds....of course, there is always the well balanced citizen who makes the mistake of experimenting with crack cocaine, only to fall apart despite the well developed individuals environment. As far as those who quote from so called Holy books, a lot of Islamic fundamentalist and Christian fundamentalist memorize the whole thing...now, how is that valuable in todays world of important real choices. Praying to a entity called God is not going to change your material world one bit....might give you a bit of comfort if you realize that God is yourself and us all who share the same existence. (as in the image of Rhizome--Spinoza's type of Nominalism) Messenger

JELPY		16-Oct-2008 03:57
************************************************************************************************************ There's only ONE single criterion by which to determinate if something is good or evil/bad. No need to call to Karl Marx, to philosophers. And to Larry Castle/Geekbert: NO, it does NOT require a transcendental, supernatural, jealous, vengeful, incapable, intolerant, homophobic, impotent, infanticidal, misogynistic, lying, slavery condoner, murderous, schizophrenic and finally forged and non-existent deity to justify it!!!!! Too bad that you believe in a hole-y book, the bible, that's based on nothing more, nothing else than myths, lies, tampering and forgeries!!! Good: goddidit ...for most xians here as they condone god's killings of 30+ million people INCLUDING TOTALLY INNOCENT SMALL CHILDREN, toddlers babies and foetuses!!! And of course the hundreds of thousands of Egyptians, etc. All in all, if we are to believe god inspired (sic), "inerrant" bible an estimated 33+ million people were directly murdered by god himself!!!! Anyways, good and bad/evil is naturally defined by one simple, even simplistic thing: the pleasure/pain dichotomy!! EVERYBODY (ANIMALS ALIKE) DOES EVERYTHING TO SEEK PLEASURE AND AVOID PAIN AT "ALL" COSTS!!! What brings pleasure is good, what brings pain is bad!!! Anything that differs from this is a corruption of it!!! Examples: - Giving is good: offering a gift brings pleasure, happiness, smiles, satisfaction, etc. This is good. - Stealing is bad: stealing something brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. - Lying is bad: bearing false witness brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. (that answers your question in message dated 15-Oct-2008 14:01 Larry Castle/Geekbert) - Love is good: loving someone (or something) brings pleasure, happiness, smiles, satisfaction, etc. This is good. - Loosing is bad: loosing somebody or something brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. - Adultery is bad: adultery brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. - Death is bad: obviously to people who are close to the dead one (by murder, accident, illness, etc.) death brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. - Terrorism is bad: terrorism brings anger, feelings of treason, discontent, sadness, pain, etc. This is bad. YOU CAN TRY IT WITH ANY ACTION OR SITUATION: THEY EITHER BRING POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE REACTIONS: PLEASURE OR PAIN, AND BY THEIR VERY DEFINITIONS: POSITIVE IS GOOD AND NEGATIVE IS BAD. Now unfortunately there are perversions of this: like suicide bombing terrorism (but by far it's not the only exception and perversion): in order to get revenge, personal or collective satisfaction, gains of any sort, etc. to the one party commanding it, they lie to the suicide bombing terrorist: they tell him (her/them) that he will gain extremely compelling advantages in the hereafter!!! This is good for him: his perceived gain is greater than his real loss, so he will do it. That's an extremely bad choice to anyone with caution and logic in mind; but it's an excellent one for the one who believes the lies; and the stronger the beliefs the more determined the terrorist will be!!! However since it's really bad for the terrorist victims (including himself!!) it is in reality very bad altogether!! But dipped and covered with lies it appears good to the executioner!!! Any perversion of the basic dichotomy is always based on lies and other imposed distortions of reality; imposed by others or the self and distortions real or perceived. JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS Evil!!! Or he doesn't exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 03:51
Geekbert, Larry, Newton was an alchemist and interested in magic as well as religion. Like many past inventors and scientist their beliefs often reflected their fear of funding cuts or charges of Heresy. Einstein did not believe in your type of god but thought that there were forces in the universe worth investigating. To say that religious people can not think rationally is not the point. The point is that fundamentals of faith based fiction can handicap all who think they have the answers. Stephen Colbert is a bit of an enigma....being a catholic as he is. John Stewart on the other hand is definitely not practicing being Jewish or a faith based thing other than being a great comedian...oh yes, a practicing secularist.

JELPY		16-Oct-2008 03:47
Larry, I already answered your point. What else shoudd I say? "Virtually A-L-L" If you know a bit of math (apparently not enough!!) 99.99+% = 100%. Thererfore my point STILL stands correct. Thank you. .

Messenger		16-Oct-2008 03:46
Mr. Haden; First of all I'm not a man. Second....it is strange how we all sound the same. I wonder why? Could it be one spirit one mind? At this time I am not attending a church... (You know a building with fellow worshipers). My church is with God until he see's fit to place me with others. I know enough to make a discerned choice in what faith I practice. I also know enough to figure out that you have a distain for Christians. So be it. Let's just say, thankfully God had mercy on me, and I was able to hear the knock on the door of my heart. I had to reach rock bottom in order to look outside of my self in order to ask for help to get back up. Thankfully, I was strong enough to humble myself in order to recognize my errors. I did not let fear hinder me from searching for the truth. Ah...and yes....most people with knowledge in Christ can quote scripture...another mystery for you I presume. Your manner of speaking and your way of degrading Christian people is worthless to us. You must be full of your self and have no peace in your heart, fear is truly a theif and makes free men into slaves.

Larry Castle (geekbert)		16-Oct-2008 03:27
Jelpy, I neglected to respond to your other statement. You said: "As far as my signature goes, I wanted to give a longer answer, however this summary will be enough: 1) the scientists you mention are only exceptions that confirm my rule!!" Your rule you refer to is "RELIGION ... removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" By using all caps in the word ALL, you underscore your intent. According to you, every Christian is incapable of rational thought. Are you sure you're not a Christian? :-) My point was that you err in that you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid or ignorant. So since ALL religious persons are incapable of rational thought according to you, you charge that Isaac Newton, James Joule, Louis Pasteur, Joseph Lister, and Gregor Mendel were incapable of rational thought. Would you mind stating that outright for all to read? You might want to say it out loud first. Remember, I am not saying that to be religious makes one more intelligent. Neither am I saying that being an atheist makes (or requires) one to be unintelligent. It is you who has chosen to speak in broad sweeping generalities. My contention is that it is you who has lost objectivity and credibility because you are willing to lie for rhetorical effect. The evidence is your refusal to acknowledge the simple, observable fact that those I have listed demonstrated considerable intelligence and have helped to pave the way for science as we know it today.

Richard Haden		16-Oct-2008 03:19
Messenger and the other nut below. Do you guys have a biblical implant? I heard that a group of Christian Scientist have figured out a way to remove the frontal lobe of your brain and replace it with a biblical hard drive. Apparently if I stand next to such a patient all I have to do is pull out a string and a recording plays a verse of the Bible un-appropriate for a given reality. You know...like one of those dolls or wind up toys. Do all of you talk that way in public or just here or church. I bet you are a hoot at a picknick

Messenger		16-Oct-2008 03:05
55-2 TIMOTHY 55-3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Many thanks to those who read and understand. A special thank you to "Truth Will Set You Free." Thank you for sharing, I understood you message very well. For those who mock us, know this. You mock us because you fear what you can not understan. Yes we are followers, followers of a God you can not understand because you don't search him out with an open mind and heart. Your fear hinders you. For those of us who understand, we will go on searching for the hidden things kept secret becuase we do not fear what we already know. 51-2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. For those of you who rely in men and not God. I feel sorry for you, however I expect you don't want pitty. How ever hardened you may appear to be, I sense that you are desperate and filled with hate and anger. 18-21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. 24-4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. It is freedom to trust in God who is greater than one self. Yet these words make no sense to you because the meaning is hidden. 59-JAMES 59-3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. To the Brethern, peace be with you.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 23:13
Candidate Gov. Sarah Palin told a group of dim witted supporters that God wanted us to invade Iraq. Well, that must mean that God is an oil exec. working at Exxon or Chevron. Or better yet Chief CEO DOG GOD for Haliburton. See how screwed up politics gets when you let an idiot speak at a podium. The taliban think they are following Gods orders as well. There is really not much difference in fundamental motives, where ever the misguided pimple shows up.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 20:07
Re: Truth will set you free, Be careful to duck when you are looking for the not lost god. He / she / it is all that we are. If you drift over my way i can wake you up with a cold splash of iced down water. Heraclitus (540-475BC) Quote: Panta Rei (Everything flows) �Men are mortal God, and gods immortal men; living is death to the former, and dying is their life� be careful before you drop coins in the collection plate...you are aiding and abetting a scammer.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 19:58
Re: Hopefull and AZ, How can I argue with those who can't see beyond the book that infects like Glaucoma those who wish to see. Your God does not call us to do anything. The commerce of organized religion calls up on you to fill it's coffers. And follow like good servants that you are. One of these decades you may get wise to how so many are manipulated in the name of false Gods. ...and this immoral deed done by this screwed up ARK builder is still a monument and example for how simple minds take literally the words of a book that litters the side tables of cheep hotels. .....now how many bibles do you think would be looted if a revolution took place next to a book store. I would bet so many shelves would be emptied of the great works, by the great thinkers of our time. There would probably be a major grab on the porn section as well, and the self help, gardening, history, fix it your self and so on...but all the worthless bibles would be left to rot on the shelves of post biblical nonsense. And AZ, what fool would build a house on sand. That is why we have building code inspectors...to keep idiotic believers from doing such lunacy. Now if you want to build on sand it had better be a Tiki hut. And that pearl cliche is so tired. If you spell dog backwards you get God. Now keep your pearls to your self for you have no pearls of wisdom only redundancy. And your cliche's are empty at that. As for the both of you...I will give you a bit of advice. If some one says that god told them to do it...be careful and be prepared to call your local mental health facilitator... And Larry, I like to use my real name so why hide behind your AKA. Granted that there are some web sites where I would like to keep my identity hidden (like say if I were going to post cartoons about how silly Mohammad is) or (arguing with a computer literate Taliban) and there was this lame commercial art blog that I used a alias for...for when some one google my name I like people to see that I argue here, there and elsewhere. But I do not want my name associated with some...for career reasons.

Larry Castle (geekbert)		15-Oct-2008 16:59
Richard, On an unrelated note, I'm curious why you have called me Larry Castle here. I have not used that name. I realize you probably googled (or yahoo'd) me to find out with whom you are speaking but why use my name when I have not invited you to? It's not that I have anything to hide. I have used my given name on YouTube discussion forums for a few years now. I'm just curious. Feel free to call me Larry if you like.

HopefulHalle		15-Oct-2008 15:04
This is insane. The fact that people can't give respect and use common sense and know that all things created by God for his purpose and to His Glory are good. I'm amazed at the idiots who can't recognize that and just let it be. You don't have to like it or even respect what this man has done but then save your opinions for another website. Using your words to tear someone down is not only useless its wrong wether your a christian or not. Yes the wood could provide oxygen but my God does that with or without the trees...I'm not worried. And yes we could build homes for the poor or help more third world countries all of which is being done already...but this monument will do far more for the spirits and hearts of men that will last an eternity than any temporary home or another housing program could provide....all of which are good charitable causes and I'm all for that...its part of what I do...but God calls each of us to different things and if Noah was worried about oxygen and trees when God told him to build the ark...none of would be here..May God speak to thousands and open the hearts mean as this ark opens its doors to the public...Wonderful testimonies to come!!!!

AZ		15-Oct-2008 14:48
Brethren, Enough with Dave/Jelpy/MightyFrog/Richard/etc./etc.. In the New Testament, when God says DO something, these are COMMANDMENTS! And HERE is one: Mt 7:6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs..." And with every commandment, Old or New, there is evidence that He is looking out for His children: "...If you do [throw your pearls to pigs], they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." These individuals on this web site have heard plenty. :26"everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand�and it fell with a great crash." If God tells Noah to "build an ark" where there is no water, he better build an ark, because He's proven Himself time and time again, as we can clearly read in our History Book. So, if God tells YOU & I to shake off the dust from our sandals and move on to someone willing to listen, then we ought to do that too. And another thing, imagine for a moment what the builder of this replica feels when he visits this web site and sees all of this nonsense. Enough already, brethren. God bless us all. Dear Dave/Jelpy/MightyFrog/Richard/etc./etc., If you are ever interested, the one and only true God says in Matthew 7:7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." Peace.

geekbert		15-Oct-2008 14:22
Jelpy, The Santa to Christianity comparison is naive and a straw man. If you can refer me to widely accepted evidence that would be worthy of consideration that says the Santa you described is real and can do what you claim, then I would have to consider it. When you have those works, get back to me.

geekbert		15-Oct-2008 14:01
Richard (PaultheDane?), Actually, I had read your explanation (thank you). That's not quite the same as a definition. I believe I understand your perspective but I don't want to critique a straw man of your view. I want to be sure I understand it. Let me attempt to define morality as you would based on your explanation. Moral actions are those that contribute to the greatest good of the greatest number. Perhaps "benefit" would be better than "good" since "good" is too close to the word being defined to be helpful. Is that correct? I want to it to be clear to us pleebs exactly what you mean when you call something immoral. After all, if we would follow your example and choose to rejoin the real world, we'll need to know how to tell the difference between the moral and immoral, right? I am not trying to be pedantic by forcing this definition issue. It's been my experience that those who subscribe to a more relativistic view of morality evade definitions because they tend to reveal inconsistencies in their view. Is morality, in your view, a matter of personal opinion? Does society at large determine what is moral? Is morality more universal in nature and as such, something we discover like other natural laws? I'll grant up front that I don't have all the answers either. Philosophers have been discussion this for millennia. I'm trying to get at exactly how you determine what is moral because I suspect at it's root it has no more (maybe less) reason to adopt than the Christian view. It may sound impressive when couched in the words of the ancient dead but as an eloquent man recently said, "Try having a conversation with out referring to your bible(s)". I believe you are well read; however, I want to know what you think. Why is lying wrong?

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 10:03
RE: Let the games begin with Satan. Hey to the guy who has all the names in his cold war list. I forgot to mention that I was given a lot of lumber once. I helped build houses for Nicaragua's poor farmer / Ranchers. I also helped build alternative housing in New York. If I could get my hands on the wood of this stupid arc I would dismantle it and use it to repair a lot of substandard houses here in Miami. Waiting for the games pilgrim.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 07:59
Now there you go...except wasting cedar you are wasting band width. Is this your way of being a censurist. Now that the internet does not allow you the thrill to burn books, you look to flood this site with the same crap as Noah's story.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 07:55
What ever do you mean get a life? If I am Satan I must already have a life. That be a life to get your sorry soul. And If I had all that cedar I'd build housing. But the first thing to consider is why would I use cedar, popular is cheaper and grows faster. This maniac built his false monument in a substandard way. All that wood will start decomposing in a few years. A real wooden boat built with 2 inch planking might last 50 or so years but this novelty item has built in obsolescence. Do you know what that means pilgrim. It means it is designed to fail or be useless in a measurable amount of time or season. Such a waste of good cedar...I have a pretty good life, thank you for your concern though. When I am not being demonic and stealing souls I am actually making art and teaching, writing, and other things, not of your world. You Christians are so cute...it is so interesting to see how you squirm in defense of your absurd cult. I bet it was the same with the other failed religions of the world. One of these decades you people may join the rest of the human race...and put meaning back into your memorized Christian slogans. How immoral you are to defend this tree rustler and his bad deeds.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 07:37
Not only is it a waste of good wood but think of how else this builder might have actually committed a moral act by building low cost housing or building a structure for poor people of a third world to live in. Instead of an act of charity he builds a false monument by the usual immoral means of contributing to useless tree falling and deforestation.

Dave		15-Oct-2008 07:10
What beatiful Timber.. What a waste . Imagine how much oxygen that could have been putting back into our already decaying atmosphere. Instead, it goes to waste in the name of some deity.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 06:56
My name is not an alias. I go by the same name I have always had. Just another non (ist) or non believer in Biblical farce.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 06:52
Saved by? Saved By God's Love & Grace of delusion. Every time, there appears to be a good conversation brewing up, a christian shows up. He / she add words from the book of mind fuck to sabatoge a interesting train of thought. The only wedge driving here is the rusty words froma book designed for the illiterates of yesterday. There is never a conversion as you think. What would that conversion look like and what would I try to convert you to? No, No, Christian, the only reason I need to post writing here is to show those other non believers and doubters that is OK to say so. Covert you to what? Perhaps the real world...huh There are many people who are surrounded by Christians who are afraid to speak their mind. Their are many who like to read words that argues against Religious beliefs. So "Saved by God's Love" idiot leave the level out of it for you are doing your best to stay beneath my reasonable one. Try having a conversation with out referring to your bible. What is it? tethered to your brain That pile of Cedar floating on a barge is the art of scam.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 04:20
Larry Castle / Geekbert did you find that comment I left for you about the Moral thing yet? It is down under Jeply's rants.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 03:38
Geekbert, scroll down and you will find what you asked for. Morality verses Moralism which is a definition either way you look at it...of course it would help if you had read the classics or any Marx or Kant. Or do you expect me to school you on all that to.

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 03:33
Excuse my stuttering. Stream of thought composition is not that pretty to look at sometimes...look at the Qu'ran for instance...Mohammed wrote his book as it was reveled to his human stream of false creation...that means he made it up with out editing it much...they didn't have paper in those days,; only vellum. Maybe papyrus to.

geekbert		15-Oct-2008 03:30
Richard, still waiting for your definition. Jelpy, I agree that defining what one means by "good" and "evil" is necessary before we can even explore who's view is more accurate. I would not define it as you have described. I would be happy to share how I would define it; however, I am electing to withhold my view until I hear Richard's (and yours) so as to not influence your answer. It seems strange to me that you both would avoid giving a definition for this long. Why do you delay?

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 03:27
Jelpy, I think the Santa Clause argument argument is silly since it Saint Nick was meant for kids to out grow. But unfortunately these People won't out grow their cultish habits. I think to argue about inbreeding is harder for some biblidiots to defend. As all that begetting in the old testament, From Adam raping his sister Eve and children to Eve having sex with who ever...to Noah humping all kinds of anal fissures in hopes of repopulating Earth. I bet even some of those goats on the Ark looked inviting.

JELPY		15-Oct-2008 01:56
************************************************************************************************************ To Joseph, Geekbert, Linda, etc. So far, none of you answered this important question and this is NOT a rhetorical one: - Do you believe in Santa Claus, the flying sledge and reindeers (who talk too), the magical bag that's human sized but keeps billions of gifts, the going down the chimney stuff (even if it's too shallow or doesn't even exist), the elves who manufacture all the gifts, the North Pole stuff, that all the billions of gifts are distributed (correctly!!) in just only 24 hours, that Santa is probably a few hundred years old, that he can listen to kids' prayers, that he knows every language of the world, that he knows if kids were good little boys and girls all year long, etc.? If you believe it, please tell why; the same if you don't. JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS Evil!!! Or he doesn't exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		15-Oct-2008 01:43
************************************************************************************************************ To geekbert, It all boils down to defining good and evil. From what I can gather, your definition of it is: - good: goddidit - evil: mandidit Is that correct?! As far as my signature goes, I wanted to give a longer answer, however this summary will be enough: 1) the scientists you mention are only exceptions that confirm my rule!! 2) they are so rare compared to the 2 billion xians as to be statistically insignificant so my rule stands firm, 3) most of those scientists' purpose (either hidden or open) is to try to prove their beliefs, therefore their mind is crippled and closed, 4) the rest are what we could call "xmas and easter" believers. JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS Evil!!! Or he doesnt exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 01:36
I mean "Religulous" with Bill Mayer. Can't wait to see "W' as well. And then I can fantasize Pallin playing her Flute at Obama inauguration party. That is if they will let her out of Alaska. With a wink and a nod...adieu

JELPY		15-Oct-2008 01:16
************************************************************************************************************ Hello all, The reasons I was quiet these past few days are 1) that I have a life besides this space and 2) there was a deluge (haha) of messages. Looks like it's getting even worst... BTW to all those morons who falsely believe one single person posts using many names, that would stupidly imply there is only one atheist in the whole world, or at least only one who knows about this site. Plus Sarah is not atheist, she's Wicca/Pagan as I gather. And I know nothing about this, except that all beliefs in supernatural forces is groundless!! You people, with such ultra low and extremely poor analytical capabilities, no wonder you believe in those forged books (bible, koran, etc.) and those stupid myths. To visitor named "My Redeemer Lives!" (message: 14-Oct-2008 02:00) ----------Quoting you---------- � GOD's purpose in the flood was not to destroy people, but to destroy wickedness and sin. ----------End of quote---------- So Mr. Insane Smartass, Please answer these three easy questions: 1) were little children, toddlers, infants and fetuses at the time of Noah wicked and sinful too?!! 2) was and is the world finally rid of sin and wickedness, in other words were god's 30 million murders efficient?!! 3) do you advocate for today mass murdering each and everybody who are in prison and all those who should be in one too, in other words all those who are wicked and sinful? JELPY NEWEST:---- "As god (any creator god) created Satan and since Satan is the Prince of Evil, god is the Father of Evil!!! So god IS Evil!!! Or he doesnt exist!!!" Try refuting this!!! "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Richard Haden		15-Oct-2008 00:56
OK GeekBert, It is not as though you put a coin in a slot and expect to get your fortune read, or questions answered-- as if your key board were one of those predicting machines at Coney Island. If you want me to respond to your query I may get to it when I find the time between the other 2000 words or so words I write a day...or the other job I have at making art. For this moment, I can give you some words explaining earth based Morality as apposed to the divine....with a few excerts from Terry Eagelton's writings and my own. We can use Marx as an example, for he can be understood as a follower of classical moralist thought (probably to his chagrin). Unlike Marx and other radicals since his time, moralist of the "religious kind" assume that morality is just ideology. This is because descendants of Abrahamic tradition make the same mistake as the Bourgeois of yesterday and today do...they confuse Morality and Moralism. Moralism believes that there is a subtext of questions labeled moral questions which are very different from social or political ones. Those kinds of questioners and thinkers do not realize that moral means exploring the texture of cultural production and or the quality of Human behavior as richly and sensitively as one can. You can not do this by abstracting men and women from their social surroundings. This is morality as, say the novelist Henry James understood it, as apposed to those who believe you can reduce it to rules, prohibitions and obligations. If you consider the classical issues of Morality you discover through the likes of, lets say, Aristotle, that morality or virtue is not a state of mind but disposition. Aristotle spoke of man's excellence or to excel at living socially. His morality and ethics were the same...Contrary to Kant who thought of morality as intentional will. Either way you look at it...it is about how one lives with in society, how well we get along, how we contribute to the well being of others and through the servicing of material needs, depends on cooperation...not exploitation, slavery or spreading scam and false knowledge for some Other's gain. Spirituality in the monotheistic sense or pluralistic sense is not a battle ground for the debate on how to live. Organized religions try to co-opt that strategy to self serve it's own ends. Christianity and all the others, hijack a debate that has always been earth bound from the get go. Even the Pagan's (with all their comical rituals are closer to an earth bound religion even though steeped in mysticism) not far removed from native American traditions, they at least teach a respect for the planet. Now don't go jumping up and down thinkin I'm selling snake oil...for as I said in earlier post...I am not an (ist) of any kind. Except you may call me an art(IST) Looking forward to seeing the Movie "Reliulous", are all of you out there looking forward as well? The spiritual is living well

geekbert		14-Oct-2008 23:19
Richard, you forgot to get around to answering the question. I did discern a restatement of your position that there is no such thing as evil. Your definition of morality would be very helpful in this discussion. Just what do you mean when you call lying (teaching false facts) immoral?

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 21:43
I'll give you believers credit though. Your have the courage to put in print just how moronic and antiquated you people really are. At least you are willing to enlighten the rest of us to your annoying proximity. I keep forgetting that their are places where the brainwashed mind dwell and reproduce as harvestable workers for the need of societies power elite.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 21:35
Messenger, You see art in this cedar chest? Well, I know where you can get a bunch of cheap Thomas Kinkades. He thinks he makes art to. This collection of wasted cedar floats on a barge next to a sea wall to remind the rest of us how very much cultish christian practice is still manifesting itself by destroying natural resourses---the cedar and pine forest as it's means to a messed up end...that destination unknown to all that their is a better place than enjoying the world we live in. Get over your sadness for me atleast for I have plenty of faith in that I do not follow you. The power of your God is what ever you want it to be...It seems that you will delude yourself by any means necessary to convince yourself that an ARK floated a clan of inbreeders Called NOAH's Tribe. Hell, maybe he actually did make a barge and float past Bagdad on the Tigress river, only to be laughed at by Hussein's ancestors. I would have liked to see that. People do not perish for lack of knowledge...you people who follow fiction and allegory as though it were meant to be literal are very stupid to think that others unlike you are misinformed. People die of natural causes except when coerced into religious battles between so called "good and evil"

Messenger		14-Oct-2008 21:04
Mr. Johan Huibers; Thank you so much for sharing your inspiration with the world and for dedicating your time to deliver such a beautiful piece of art. Thank you for giving us an opportunity to see in simplicity, the plan of salvation that God had for man and to look with humbleness into the divine grace that he bestowed a few. I've been reading the blogs and to be honest with you it has opened up curiosity and conversation for many people. Some of the comments have been positive, other not so. For those of us who know who we are and by what name we are called, there is peace in our hearts and an understanding of our faith. We are not confused by words or perceptions; instead, I feel we share a sadness to see such little faith arise in those that do not know God as we do. To all those who do not know the power of God, the Spirit of Christ, I say this. "My people perish for lack of knowledge" and "Lord forgive them for they know not what they do". May you one day know the beauty of His grace.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 20:35
1.People who post multiples of gibberish remind me of the day before Internet communication when CB radio was so popular. I once lived in northern Washington State on the border with British Columbia. I had a CB radio in my house to listen to the neighborhood conversation. It was a normal way for people back then to talk to each other in the hills. On many occasions though, there was this guy across the border in the Columbia valley, Canada, who would sit on a channel and disrupt the locals conversations. He would go on and on how Jesus did this or that. The broadcaster was very drunk and forced people to jump from one channel to another. I think the goof eventually got cornered at a 7-11 by some one who tricked him into showing up... 2...as my style of writing is often non sequitar or bathed in digression I will move on... to the made up concept of evil. I will use our favorite dead tyrant as an example: Saddam Hussein. Was he evil or a product produced by the first Bush administration. I think the latter. In order to make my point short... I summarize; Remember when he was just a local general who through Coup d'etat grabbed power in the usual fashion for that part of the world? He was not evil, he was acting as many Arab, Persian, and African Clan or tribal leaders have done in the past; He took power with force...not evil but historically a norm for that part of the world. So as he took power he gained support from the US/Bush administration for Hussein's / Iraq's Historical enemy are the Persians / Iran and since the fall of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh (the Shaw of Iran) our country's cozy friend, Hussein became a made man, supported by the US military machine. We gave an Adult child dictator high tech weaponry from which his already inflated ego ballooned. Now that is not evil--it is man made catastrophe...So what did we do? We took out our, manufactured, made man so that Al queda could come visit. As bad as Hussein was to his enemies at least he did not permit fundamental Islamics to emerge in his domain...Not that we should have left him to be but there were alternatives to opening up Pandora's box. This war has been a Bush burning, good verses evil script, that is so not in the 21st century.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 19:37
Tripple postings are not accidental they are intentional. Some believe that they can write drafts of long comedic gibberish and use the multiple postings to bury other comments. The average reader only gazes at the top of blog scrolls. On the other hand I will post things in sequence if the complete text will not fit into the comment box limited word count. Like the Story I invented and posted below. "Myth Proto: A & E. Fortunately I posted it again after I revised the first draft.

Linda		14-Oct-2008 19:30
************PLEASE************** To avoid double postings, do NOT hit your refresh button!!!!!!!! After typing in your comment, hit the "Add Comment" button then WAIT for it to refresh!!!!!!!!!!

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 19:09
Who ever keeps using my name with the other names is not flattering me. Your rants are comical but redundant. Why don't you just post them once. They would be easier on my scrolling key. Geekbert, I'll get around to explaining how morality is earth based in material life eventually. And the invention of the word evil is but a way for those who do not want to understand theory lump every thing mean into an either or category or as BUSH said you are with us or against us...the axis of evil phrase he came up with is so ignorant...

Ninette McBride		14-Oct-2008 15:51
Thanks you for putting this online. I wish I could see it in person. I am just taken back by it. Thank you for your hard work. Your accomplishment is wonderful, thank you so much for sharing it with me. Memphis, Tennessee

geekbert		14-Oct-2008 13:55
Richard, Thanks for taking me up on my invitation. I have to make a few admissions. First, we agree on something (which I'm sure surprises us both). Can everyone posting here please pick a name and stick with it and for crying out loud, post once, close the page and don't resubmit the form when you're checking to see if anyone has responded. If you have something worth saying, say it and then let others respond. Second, whoever penned the "story" you posted has some serious word-crafting skills. I was a teen in the 80's and I could swear I heard Dr. Dre and Jam Master Jay in the background as I read (that's a compliment). I think I'm safe to assume this "story" does not originate with you? Perhaps I assume too much since the only other place I find it on the web is also posted by you. If you really wrote it, you are an artist! However, one should not confuse beauty with accuracy. Your "story" proves that one need not be unintelligent to be a fool. That brings us to our disagreements. The closest thing to an answer for my question that you offered was when you said, "Evil is an invention that is a part of the rest of biblical fiction" and again you said, "There is no evil". That would be a cogent position for an atheist to take. I could at least respect that you have followed your epistemology to it's proper conclusion. The problem would still remain that no one really lives that way (we lock up those who serve as the exceptions). But another problem exists in your case. While in one moment you say, "There is no evil", just a while before you insist that you "still find it an immoral act to teach false facts." Maybe you could explain what you mean by "immoral" since you are apparently not using that word in the traditional sense. Let's not quibble about semantics. I'm looking for the concept to which you are referring in each case. If you do not posit a fixed and external reference point (something transcendent) as a basis for morality, then when you say things are "immoral", you are really just saying you don't like them. Would that be correct? Please feel free to respond in normal, unartistic prose.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 09:42
OK, here is an interesting text for your amusement. Bible verses Qu'ran. You can google Noah's Arc and read how the story of the Arc in the Qu'ran's description is even more colorful than the old testament...as wikipedia says most biblical scholars agree that the story of the Arc is not meant to be taken literal. OK, that said, how else do fundamentals in all three books of Abraham ancestry effect the way we see the world? One obvious way to look at Religions relevancy is to see how it infects our ability to judge the advancement of science. As I am sure all of you are aware of the histories of enlightened times or of proto-Renaissance and the dark ages--Other dark and light periods of Christian History. Such as the tragedies suffered by the likes of Galileo and Copernicus or all those others who argued for a round world and a decenter-ed universe--as the earth was order the center of the Catholic universe...that the sun rotates around the earth....bla, bla, I know you have all heard these simple arguments before....but I bet you have not heard much about stem cell research and how Christian Ideas are different those in Islam. It is all about how Christians, Muslims, and Jewish people believe the sole enters the Embryo. I find that Islam seems to be a bit more advanced on the subject--even though Islamic fundamentals are just as based in fiction as the rest. But Islam seems better adaptable to the controversy of Stem cell research in simple ways... ...later on in the biological development because of the Qur�an�s use of the words �thereafter We produced him as another creature.�7 Additionally, many scholars indicate that ensoulment of the fetus does not occur until the end of the fourth month of pregnancy (120 days).8 However, tradition states: Each of you possesses his own formation within his mother�s womb, first as a drop of matter for forty days, then as a blood clot for forty days, then as a blob for forty days, and then the angel is sent to breathe life into him.9 Additionally, the Shari�ah makes a distinction between actual life and potential life, determining that actual life should be afforded more protection than potential life. 10 Thus, under most interpretations of Islamic law, the embryo is not considered a person. Now that is some interesting thinking. It all goes to show and illustrate just how differentiated "Hermeneutics" can be from one book to the next. I guess in my case, though, the mere fact that there is a soul at all is a quagmire. Yet life is...property as is and was looked at in biblical and pre biblical times. Now that is another subject all together.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 09:39
Eell, it is good to read all this science in triplicate on the ARK site. The creators of Noah should have met you before they made up there dellusional story. How about termites? you got any info on termites or carpenter ants.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 09:36
So apparently there were not only two viruses or Bacteria on the ark...there was billions and trillions of those little creatures aboard. I bet there were hundreds of rats as well. You got to wonder how people came to believe in this floating motel.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 09:29
Slow down your telepromptor your words are becoming word salad. You keep mumbling something about atheist talking about evil. There is no evil... in your case it is not evil it appears to be bad medication. Got any words that make sense to a non believer like me. Like why did a man waste all that cedar to build an absurd Noah yacht.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 09:21
Why is it that moronic writers post comments three times when once is enough. Evil is an invention that is a part of the rest of biblical fiction

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 07:21
I posted a reworked version of the below story. It is in three parts for the comment box has a limit on words posted. I think you will find my text interesting.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 07:19
Myth�/ Proto: before A & E  IT is with careful resolve that I have finally figured out a farce and a tale to explain the state of affairs in regards to the loons of biblical moronism. It begins with Genesis and big bang; It ends with private property soul ghouls who enslave the free citizens of once true allegorical teachings. It is as though it were true�that the committed brokers of contingent based reasoning are working the �word Truth� to justify pyramidical eschatology that list keepers of green capital buy ever cheeper. The market is an improving �mentalist� by which technocrats and media markets sell in bulk / buy in bulk�it is these clerics that, on commission, stagnate the human condition�and retrograTe the progress of human development into myth matching chameleon mimicry. It is with in constant contesting aggravation and in satisfaction that power consumes and harnesses the surplus human spirit.  It all has to do with evolution.  There appears to me to be a way to make sense of it all. You see�they are right and we are (w)right (in the wheel wright sense) And the law of obscurity blinds us to the schism that has created the colossal abyss that UN-abridges us into, at least, two camps. Two tribes. One in continuing flux and the other mired in the moraine of morbid live entombment�rising "mired" as color temperature, goes from real green to "green washed" or red to blood red, a martyring thing. Or the cross of Oak�  1) On the same planet, possibly others, you have the neolithic camp, tribe of Adam. 2) Then, on the same planet, unrelated to others, you have the Amoeba tribe, the Protozoa of my ancestry and maybe yours. "Proto" is the key word here. Proto came before A bred into E,

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 07:18
the tribe of Adam (with the 6000 year quick installment plan�of deflated interest) and his nubile mate, plucked from his "twisted rib" [according to Bedouin(Badawi), Quranic legends] began in an instant, nuptially of Abrahamic fictions�Not yet beating around the flaming bush, for warmth�sought the wisdom of master Bourgeois, the Lord over other lords, knowledge�at that time�in his delusional mind at least; the wisdom and secrets of the universe and the soon to develop economies of religious hierarchical justification (of subsumption and Ambrosia legend) You see�Eve as instinctual progenitor of not yet understood feminist theory�wanted to know what this hippie like "yucie"* was getting her into. But the God of their Eden saw her curious spontaneous attributes as threatening, He warned both not to seek such knowledge�his Ivory tower could not withstand the gaze of transparent consciousness. (as with all ivory, a sad metaphor) the saga began. So to edify his chances at monopoly wisdom God misdirected the search for his secrets using the ruse of a fetishized piece of fruit. Not of the enlightened kind but a perverted diverted apple of the false tree of wisdom kind.  *Yucis (young urban campers) was a term given to squatters and Homesteaders of the Lower East Side, back in pre-gentrified lower Manhattan (east village...once upon a time when days of cheap housing was but a sledge hammer away)  Any way, to make a long story short:  The other tribe of which I claim to be descended, began Billions of years ago. The tribe of Amoebic(id)(ego)&(Super-Situ) ancestry, suffered through the grueling task of long simmering evolution. Some of our cousins became this or that species by stumbling down different paths. And in doing so they found diversity. It is with the knowledge of that evolutionary progress, growing up in time, that we have learned and earned the wisdom through non linear dialectics (bio-mastering) the temperance to tolerate the

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 07:18
other tribes. And in continuing the evolutionary momentum we have to instigate the on demand revolution�once and a while�to remind the people of the book to back off.  If We live non-directly as Derrida claims I settle for in-direct ranting until further notice. But at least I feel indifferent to the false consciousness of Adam's inbred colonizing clan�who blindly persists on remaking the world in their grand plan of �lack��If through time and experience, it is our accumulative personal archives that inspire us to act, then it is in natures natural time that we excel...It is through re-presentation and invention that we muddle on�whether metaphoric or in trope subconsciously Freud�s "Magic Pad" is etched each day for us to remember who we are and what we did yesterday. It is in necessity that we create our own "situations" and not the semblances or re-enactments of biblical scripts that divert us from our path. I like to think of my atoms and neuron circuitry working in "monadic" or nodal fashion as hypertexting and constantly re-linking to keep it new�monistically as though all the memory traces that I accumulate mix well with a primordial gaze to make sense and nonsense of it all�It is the priori of instinct and all that comes after that, that must always renew in the non-ideological practice of living�The Directions for that not included�  Something like that�with coxcomb and humor in re-search of the Ludic�off the cuff until next time�I want to scream at people who choose to hide instead of being alive.  �from single cell ancestry, not the sleeper cell activation of some other false cause.  Richard Haden

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 05:28
Below is a short story I wrote for you. It is in three parts...I had to post it that way for the comment box has a limit to how many words it can handle. Enjoy

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 05:26
� Myth�/ Proto: before A & E  IT is with careful resolve that I have finally figured out a farce and a tale to explain the state of affairs in regards to the loons of biblical (moronish)ness, private property soul ghouls and the ongoing slavery of free citizens. It is as though it were true�committed by the contingent based non-necessity of urban pyramidic eschatologist (a)(list) keepers of green capital and operators of ever improving media measuring/mentalist� that stagnates the human condition�and retrograTes the progress into myth�-that is in constant contesting aggravation and is in satisfaction consuming and harnessing the surplus human spirit.  It all has to do with evolution.  There appears to me to be a way to make sense of it all. You see�they are right and we are (w)right (in the wheel wright sense) And the law of obscurity blinds us to the schism that has created the colossal abyss that UN-abridges us into, at least, two camps. Two tribes. One in continuing flux and the other mired in the moraine of morbid live entombment�rising "mired" as color temperature, goes from real green to "green washed" or red to blood red, a martyring thing. Or the cross of Oak�  1) On the same planet, possibly others, you have the neolithic camp, tribe of Adam. 2) Then, on the same planet, unrelated to others, you have the Amoeba tribe, the Protozoa of my ancestry and maybe yours. "Proto" is the key word here. Proto came before A that bred into the E.  The tribe of Adam (with the 6000 year quick installment plan�of inflated interest) and his nubile mate, plucked from his "twisted rib" [according to Bedouin(Badawi), Quranic legends] began in instant nuptiality of Abramaniac fictions�Not yet beating around

richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 05:25
the flaming bush, for warmth�sought the wisdom of master Bourgeois, the Lord over other lords, knowledge�at that time�in his delusional mind at least; the wisdom and secrets of the universe and the soon to develop economies of religious hierarchical justification ( of subsumption and Ambrosiac�legend) You see�Eve as instinctual progenitor of not yet understood feminist theory�wanted to know what this hippie like "yuci"* was getting her into. But seeing that the God of their Eden saw her spontaneous curious attributes as threatening, He warned both not to seek such knowledge�the threat to his Ivory tower not withstanding the gaze of transparent consciousness. (as with all ivory, a sad metaphor) the saga began. So to edify his chances at monopoly wisdom God misdirected the search for his secrets using the ruse of a fetishsized piece of fruit. Not of the enlightened John Waters brand but a diverted apple of the false tree of wisdom.  *Yucis (young urban campers)was a term given to squatters and Homesteaders of Lower East Side territories back in pre-gentrified lower Manhattan, east village (once upon a time when days of cheap housing was but a sledge hammer away)  any way, to make a long story short:  The other tribe of which I claim to be descended (which began billions of years ago) The tribe of Amoebic(id)(ego)&(SuperSitu) ancestry, suffered through the grueling task of long simmering evolution. Some of our cousins became this or that species and by stumbling down different paths. And in doing so they found diversity. It is with the knowledge of that evolutionary progress, growing up in time, that we have learned and earned the wisdom through non linear dialectics (bio-mastering) the temperance to tolerate the other tribes. And in continuing the evolutionary momentum we have to instigate the on demand revolution�once and a while�

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 05:25
If We live non-directly as Derrida claims I may settle for in-direct ranting until further notice. But at least I feel indifferent to the false consciousness of Adam's inbred colonizing clan�that blindly persists on remaking the world in their grand plan of lack� If it is our personal archives that inspire us to partially act in re-presentation�whether of subconscious Freudian "Magic Pad" metaphoric mechanization or that we wake each day to remember who we are; it is in necessity that we are open to the directness of our own created "situations" and not the semblanced re-enactments of other scripts. I like to think of my atoms and neuron circuitry working in "monadic" or nodal fashion as hypertexting and constantly re-linking to keep it new� as though all the memory traces that I accumulate mix well with my primordial gaze to make sense and nonsense of it all�It is the priori of instinct and all that comes after that, that must always renew in the un-ideological practice of living�Direction in that a way vectoring�direct living directions not included�  Something like that�with coxcomb and humor in re-search of the Ludic�off the cuff until next time�that I want to scream at people who choose to kick ass instead of being creative.  �from single cell ancestry. Not sleeper cell activation for some other false cause.  Richard Haden

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 04:44
Geekbert has a screwed up notion of morality. He thinks it depends on a higher power. The arc is still looking quite silly. Did you know that he is building another? Using barges again. Full size for bigger laughs. The sky cop is frowning on this idiot. Or should I say aliens...

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 03:46
And you think I am JELPY. No I hide behind no AKA's I am here as myself not sporting a JELPY mask. as I push the control F key to check him out I find a kindred spirit though. At least from what little I have bothered to read. Back to the arc...what a waste of good wood.

WAYNEW		14-Oct-2008 03:23
IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT JELPY IS NOW QUIET.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 02:48
Just think of all the cloths that you could store in that Cedar Chest. Moths do not like cedar. HMM, maybe the cedar chest builder could use it for that--Storage. Can you imagine all the stumps left from falling the cedar trees it took to build this thing, sacrificed for this Joke. Hasn't the Christian right screwed up this country enough (refering to George "W" Bush, US) Why do you people want to encourage this type of foolishness. These kinds of false fundamental beliefs begets serious delusional living. Hey Joseph I hope I qualify for what ever conspiracy you are talking about.

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 02:16
If an alien had just arrived from a rational planet, It might check out this ARK and wonder, cool--oh what a nice conveyance and how interesting it is that the Human species restores artifacts from there past. Then as that same alien found that this arc was built to edify an allegory turned around into fake fact...well, that alien got back on his / her little space ship and left a space marker in orbit to warn other aliens to be wary of Homosapien earthlings. The marker states the following: The top of the food chain on this sphere is stuck in it's evolutionary development...Cause may be a guy who goes by the name of JESUS. Beware of the many Cults who populate the planet earth. They suffer from the usual Messianic complex...

Guest		14-Oct-2008 01:50
Excellent

Richard Haden		14-Oct-2008 01:24
Geekbert, is this the page that you want me to chat to. Well it still looks like a waist of good cedar. And I still find it an immoral act to teach false facts. Or to reify an allegory in this over produced way. With the planets dwindling resources you would think that wood would be better used building...lets say...affordable housing for those with less income... This huge stage set will not last. It is not built as a ship would be and so on I could go. There is so much wrong with this idiotic display of craft...

Joseph (Just a father of two)		13-Oct-2008 22:03
Dear Geekbert Why do you wish to revisit the �ISSUES� when we have a reprieve from the onslaught? The perps who set up this site to argue did not slow down� they just doubled their efforts on the sub forums attached to the main page. Instead of wanting us to validate answering the questions feel free to answer them yourself. I do not have issues in my faith and need not question its merit in arguing cut-and-paste arguments. I had a great Sunday evening discussing the Bible with people I had never met in their own home. This site would have had me deterred from such and trapped in the rhetoric of the founders of this site arguing their motives and agendas. Their �ISSUES� not mine. Knowing the front page is visited most often I will keep posting my warnings to show the site for what it is: "Joseph (Just a father of two) 09-Oct-2008 04:33 Knowing Jelpy is not that intelligent I looked up what he/she is offering today. It is all copied from a site on De-converting Christians. Again I am warning everyone what this site was set up for. It is to first strip a God loving person down and then to offer Wicca and Paganism as an alternative. Take my warning seriously and do as Jesus taught those who are to spread the word. When we spread the message of Christ we can not force acceptance upon the heart. Instead we need to plant the seed and let it flourish and grow. It is not good to dwell on one who will consume our time in arguments and hostilities. In this are time is consumed and our abilities to share with others is taken away. We need to remember the twelve were also instructed to brush the sand from their feet and move on when this happens. Why then do we as Christian stand and argue? Show them for what they are (bringing the lies to light) and then walk away. Luke 9:5 (King James Version) �5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.� God Bless Joseph" Just a man with a Bible in my hand

geekbert		13-Oct-2008 03:57
Apologies to all for the duplicate post. I realized too late that reloading the page to check for responses resubmits the form that posted my response. I doubt I'll get much response anyway. After weeks of scathing posts, Jelpy has gone absolutely quiet. Coincidence? Hmm... one does wonder.

geekbert		13-Oct-2008 03:53
I was hoping to get some dialogue going on the issues Jelpy raised (either from Jelpy or Mark2). They're great topics. I know real life is busy, so I won't presume that Jelpy and Mark2 have declined to comment because they have no answer. They're probably just busy. Here are my two posts from 10/9/08 asking Jelpy for a response: POST 1 "I'd like to know how you can say, "There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without 'needing' to have some sky-cop spying on them!!!" You have obviously not considered the implications of your statement. In it, you assume the fruits of the very thing you are arguing against. In some of your other posts, you use words like "evil" and in the one I cite, you talk about "decent lives". Do you understand that apart from a "sky-cop", as you call it (or at least some form of sky law-something transcendent), those terms are meaningless and morality is merely conventional at best or delusional at worst. I'm sure you're going to disagree. Please, be my guest and lay down the logic. Please demonstrate how, in a universe comprised merely of matter, there can be any transcendent standard of morality like the one you use to call God's actions evil. You will be bound to acknowledge that you are merely attempting to be the sky cop and forcing your will as morality. I would recommend that when you come to this realization that you humbly bow and confess that there is a God and you are not Him." POST 2 "...I'll grant that there is plenty in the list that turns my stomach (which proves nothing by the way). The world is a pretty harsh place and people are bent towards sin. That is exactly the message the Bible drives home again and again. You see, I can acknowledge that because I posit a universe where there is an absolute standard by which actions may be judged as evil or righteous. You, on the other hand, seem to posit a world free from such antiquated ideas yet you continue to invoke the in-your-brain cop to which you expect everyone to submit. Where do you get the idea of "evil' by which you condemn the long list of man's and God's behavior? Further, what makes you think that everyone else must recognize the validity of said standard? Listing 5,000 things that someone has done that you don't like is meaningless. Such a list does nothing to explain how you can justify the notion of anything being moral or immoral. Practically, it merely demonstrates that you have an opinion. In argumentation, it is known as begging the question. You said, "If you answer yes, then you're as monstrous as your fake god is represented!!!!" Please tell us on what basis. Says who?" Anyone who has an answer please offer it. I would suggest there is no answer but I welcome a friendly discussion of the issue since I believe we all benefit from thinking critically about these issues.

geekbert		13-Oct-2008 03:34
I was hoping to get some dialogue going on the issues Jelpy raised (either from Jelpy or Mark2). They're great topics. I know real life is busy, so I won't presume that Jelpy and Mark2 have declined to comment because they have no answer. They're probably just busy. Here are my two posts from 10/9/08 asking Jelpy for a response: POST 1 "I'd like to know how you can say, "There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without 'needing' to have some sky-cop spying on them!!!" You have obviously not considered the implications of your statement. In it, you assume the fruits of the very thing you are arguing against. In some of your other posts, you use words like "evil" and in the one I cite, you talk about "decent lives". Do you understand that apart from a "sky-cop", as you call it (or at least some form of sky law-something transcendent), those terms are meaningless and morality is merely conventional at best or delusional at worst. I'm sure you're going to disagree. Please, be my guest and lay down the logic. Please demonstrate how, in a universe comprised merely of matter, there can be any transcendent standard of morality like the one you use to call God's actions evil. You will be bound to acknowledge that you are merely attempting to be the sky cop and forcing your will as morality. I would recommend that when you come to this realization that you humbly bow and confess that there is a God and you are not Him." POST 2 "...I'll grant that there is plenty in the list that turns my stomach (which proves nothing by the way). The world is a pretty harsh place and people are bent towards sin. That is exactly the message the Bible drives home again and again. You see, I can acknowledge that because I posit a universe where there is an absolute standard by which actions may be judged as evil or righteous. You, on the other hand, seem to posit a world free from such antiquated ideas yet you continue to invoke the in-your-brain cop to which you expect everyone to submit. Where do you get the idea of "evil' by which you condemn the long list of man's and God's behavior? Further, what makes you think that everyone else must recognize the validity of said standard? Listing 5,000 things that someone has done that you don't like is meaningless. Such a list does nothing to explain how you can justify the notion of anything being moral or immoral. Practically, it merely demonstrates that you have an opinion. In argumentation, it is known as begging the question. You said, "If you answer yes, then you're as monstrous as your fake god is represented!!!!" Please tell us on what basis. Says who?" Anyone who has an answer please offer it. I would suggest there is no answer but I welcome a friendly discussion of the issue since I believe we all benefit from thinking critically about these issues.

Ken		13-Oct-2008 03:30
I would rather be a "sheep follower" and be wrong than not be a follower and be wrong. Besides, once you fall in love with God, and His Son, Jesus, it is so easy to be a follower and find great happiness.

Ken		13-Oct-2008 03:30
I would rather be a "sheep follower" and be wrong than not be a follower and be wrong. Besides, once you fall in love with God, and His Son, Jesus, it is so easy to be a follower and find great happiness.

Ken		13-Oct-2008 03:27
I would rather be a "sheep follower" and be wrong than not be a follower and be wrong. Besides, once you fall in love with God, and His Son, Jesus, it is so easy to be a follower and find great happiness.

Diann Nagel		12-Oct-2008 19:43
Lovely, just lovely!

geekbert		10-Oct-2008 16:47
Mark2, you may want to reconsider cutting and pasting things that you really don't understand. I'm not intending to insult you. What I mean is that any secular ancient literature expert will tell you that the statements you cite about textual variants are nonsense. Do you understand that there is no other ancient text (or group of texts in this case) with even a small percentage of the kind geographical and chronological diversity to message consistency as the primary Christian documents we collectively call the Bible. No other ancient document(s). NONE that even approaches it. You are correct when you say we do not have any of the autographs (that's what they're called; not original manuscripts as your citations says.). Ironic then that the very same citation tries to give the impression that it knows what was in the autographs when it fits the agenda: "conclusion: since we see that copyists change the texts they copy from at their own will, it is impossible to know for sure what the original texts said at all, given the fact that we now have no original manuscripts of any book found in THE BIBLE THAT IS THEREFORE A COMPLETE JOKE OF A MESS" However, earlier it claims, "what we see here is that the texts closer to the original manuscript offer a full 100% negative view of Jesus' behavior, then later texts are falsified and present a text only 50% negative, then the newest texts offer a 180� turn around and lie completely by saying Jesus both was moved with compassion and that he healed the leper" Besides contradicting themselves, these statements are easily falsifiable. As I write, I have lying in the desk before me a UBS Greek New Testament open to Mark 1:41. In the textual notes for this verse are listed all manuscript evidence and variants. There are over 50 texts that show the first variant: splagchnizomai (indicating He was moved by compassion), 5 that show the alternate: orgistheis (indicating He was moved by anger). These variants are no secret and they are no problem to Christian doctrine. Anyone with the internet can go to the Net Bible and read an explanation of the standard procedure for understanding variants such as this one: "(74) The reading found in almost the entire NT ms tradition is σπλαγχνισθείς (splancnisqei�, �moved with compassion�). Codex Bezae (D), {1358}, and a few Latin mss (a ff2 r1*) here read ὀργισθείς (ojrgisqei�, �moved with anger�). It is more difficult to account for a change from �moved with compassion� to �moved with anger� than it is for a copyist to soften �moved with anger� to �moved with compassion,� making the decision quite difficult. B. M. Metzger (TCGNT 65) suggests that �moved with anger� could have been prompted by 1:43, �Jesus sent the man away with a very strong warning.� It also could have been prompted by the man�s seeming doubt about Jesus� desire to heal him (v. 40). As well, it is difficult to explain why scribes would be prone to soften the text here but not in Mark 3:5 or 10:14 (where Jesus is also said to be angry or indignant). Thus, in light of diverse mss supporting �moved with compassion,� and at least a plausible explanation for ὀργισθείς as arising from the other reading, it is perhaps best to adopt σπλαγχνισθείς as the original reading. Nevertheless, a decision in this case is not easy. For the best arguments for ὀργισθείς, however, see M. A. Proctor, �The �Western� Text of Mark 1:41: A Case for the Angry Jesus� (Ph.D. diss., Baylor University, 1999)." Mark2, the citation you shared is obviously only interested in discrediting Mark, not understanding it. It is unreasonable and secular as well as Christian literary historians would reject it out of hand.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		10-Oct-2008 04:43
Dear Mark2 We have plenty of issues right here on this open forum without running to every site attacking religion. I do not see the benefits in checking such a site out. So the individual is sick. We have more then a few sick minded people attacking others right here. None of us expected to find this forum run by people wanting to argue with God loving people. I am sure most all would not have come had we known. We only stay to warn others and shed some light on those lurking in the dark. Joseph PS For those wishing to share their love please join us at a new site: ://groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/ We are just 8 members and growing. We all came from this site and our front page offers a link if wanting to come back.

Sarah		10-Oct-2008 04:32
Geekbert, If you would like to email me at srhwss@yahoo.com so we could discuss these things further that would be fine with me. However, I will not be sharing my views on this site anymore. Their are some people that seem to take it the wrong way and think that I am trying to convert them when all I am trying to do is explain my point of view. I am at a cross-roads in my life right now and I am not as educated as others on this site. The reason I have stayed this long is because some of what these people have to say is very interesting.

Mark2		10-Oct-2008 03:00
SCOOP BREAKING NEWS JESUS WAS HOMOSEXUAL* I'm NOT the one saying this: I found this quote from MARK, as in the Gospel of Mark, who wrote two different passages conveying this: - One refers to Jesus spending the night with a near-naked man, - Another passage refers to "the young man whom Jesus loved." But that's not all, in the very same page (link below): 1) we learn that we have today many copies of Mark's Gospel dating from the early centuries AD 2) NO two manuscript have the exact same text: here sinks the claim that the bible is inerrant 3) Though usually the differing texts are just trivial, it's NOT the case in some instances 4) Inasmuch as some copies offer passages that differ totally one from another 5) example in Mark 1:41, when a leper came to Jesus, some of the earliest manuscripts say that Jesus became angry or indignant at the leper's intrusion and sent him away (way to go Jesus!); indeed, because leprosy is very contagious, lepers were strictly forbidden to enter cities Anyways, some later copies of Mark change the text half ways and say that Jesus was angry with the leper, but healed him nonetheless. The latest manuscripts on the other hand bring the changes all the way through and say that Jesus was moved with compassion and healed the leper. 6) what we see here is that the texts closer to the original manuscript offer a full 100% negative view of Jesus' behavior, then later texts are falsified and present a text only 50% negative, then the newest texts offer a 180� turn around and lie completely by saying Jesus both was moved with compassion and that he healed the leper 7) conclusion: since we see that copyists change the texts they copy from at their own will, it is impossible to know for sure what the original texts said at all, given the fact that we now have no original manuscripts of any book found in THE BIBLE THAT IS THEREFORE A COMPLETE JOKE OF A MESS. * taken from the link found further down at: religioustolerance.org (slash) chr_miss.htm

Joseph (Just a father of two)		09-Oct-2008 22:02
There is so much I do not like about this open forum and yet the nuggets are still to be found. It is true this forum is deceptive in creation. This is easy to see from the postings and the anonymity in not knowing how many posters are one and the same. It is easy to see the only reason for one calling themself Jelpy to be on this site. It is to play the Bad Cop twisting all who love God away. It is also easy to see that the harvesters are ready to swift anyone they see as week into their Pagan/Wicca realm. This is the reason this site was set up in the first place and the real idea was shown. Jelpy is just a fronted name for the real person/persons who crafted this concept. Why would I, or anyone on this site, have to answer all that is perped? Should I really be offering an answer to something I have not personally studied in depth? Would it not be better to offer the links to have the one asking find the answer asked? Who am I to think God would want me answering all? Should I think myself so wise as to be gifted with this ability? We all know this would be foolish. I offer again that Jelpy is a fronted name for one reason alone. Jelpy has deleted all posts when he or she (They) are being shown a fool. They can delete all that was offered any time they like. I copied all I offered on this forum and will just offer it again. I do not have the time to re-write for this site is also aimed at consuming our time. Here is the only good news. If our nuggets offered together forced the real creators of this site to delete all that was offered we must be hitting a nerve in the truth. Save what you offer and the next time they delete all the posts have them handy for offering again. I did. I have copied the whole page and will be ready for the next time around with out all the work. Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		09-Oct-2008 21:02
Dear Rad4Jesus!! I just scanned over the site you offered. �//godandscience.org/� I was in aw to see how well the area of Abortion was covered directly from the Bible. I have spent much time (years) in personal study with my Bible in my hand and taught on this topic from the Bible itself. The person who wrote on the topic did an excellent job. Like the author, I skipped over many areas in my showing what the Bible offers. Skipped over only in the initial idea of showing this is an area well covered and kept my notes for offering other references if desired. Again his initial offering is wonderful and matches my notes in many ways. His examples are the same I offer (as they should be). It is just different in presentation. Again I love the way he or she wrote this showing what the Bible offers. This is not the only Taboo sin of today I write upon but it is an important one that I asked God to help me cover so I could share with others. The only true Author of what we write is God Himself for it is his Laws and love we share. God Bless Joseph

geekbert		09-Oct-2008 17:51
Sarah, I just read your comments posted on 07-Oct-2008 05:08. I really appreciate your perspective and your tone in that posting. I agree with most of what you said but draw some very different conclusions. I agree that "No one has all the answers and no one ever will" except for God. I think you would agree that if there is a God as described in the Bible, then if He chose to reveal things about reality, He would have the final word as the author of reality. Note: I am not God and therefore do not claim to have all the answers but I constantly search for them. You said that you "asked the hard questions and when people couldn't answer them (and I couldn't find the answers for myself) I decided to find something that fit my life and my beliefs better". That seems like a good approach. It is very similar to the path I have taken. I believe I have found some answers and reason to believe the Christian view of life provides the best context for my ongoing search. I'd love to share what I have found with you but recognize your right to not be interested. I do stop short of saying something silly like "maybe we're both right". We can both be wrong or one wrong and one right but we can't both be right since what we believe are mutually exclusive. I also heartily agree with your statement that it "is a little naive to not ask any questions about something that has a major affect on how you live your lives". I think exploring one's own philosophy and epistemology is one of the most important tasks in life as you have said. It's sad how few people make an attempt (Christians and non-Christians alike). I've gone so far as to take several years of ancient language study so that I could read for myself the primary documents of Christianity. As a result, I'm confident that what we read in modern English translations of the Bible is at the very least an accurate rendering of the autographs. That doesn't make them by default God's word; it just means that they are the most well attested ancient manuscripts known to man. On that basis, you can then read what the earliest teachers of Judaism and Christianity wrote and decide for yourself. I believe the Bible to be self-authenticating as any revelation from God would have to be (or any ultimate standard of truth, like logic, would have to be.). For that reason, it makes perfect sense to quote the Bible as a source of authority. All that said, I appreciate your perspective and the chance to discuss where we disagree respectfully. I hope that you will continue to evaluate potential worldviews on the basis of their merits or lack thereof and please continue to offer your opinions as you have. I think we agree that it is beneficial to think critically about these things.

jim reid		09-Oct-2008 17:11
YOU ARE AWSOME DUDE WISH YOU WOULD HAVE BULIT IT HERE IN THE STATES USA I WOULD LOVE TO GO SEE IT MAY GOD BLESS YOU !!!!!!

Linda		09-Oct-2008 15:56
You are gifted, Geekbert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

geekbert		09-Oct-2008 14:51
Jelpy, your signature includes a line that reads, "RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism..." That is an extremely broad statement that you may consider revising or omitting altogether. Have you considered the FACT that many of the founders of modern science would have consider themselves theists (most Christian), many even overtly pursuing their scientific endeavors motivated by a desire to better understand the "created order"? Exactly how did their religion "cripple" their minds and can you demonstrate how it "remove[d] all sense of analysis, logic and criticism" in their work? You could start with a few like Isaac Newton, James Joule, Louis Pasteur, Joseph Lister, and Gregor Mendel. Please give specific examples of the truth of your broad statement in their work. I think even one example from one of them would at least show that you thought about the statement before you pasted it into your signature. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that a particular religion has a tendency to discourage people from thinking critically. Making such a generic, obviously untrue, statement diminishes your credibility. It makes it appear as though your objections are based on emotion rather than reason as you allege.

geekbert		09-Oct-2008 14:25
Joseph, thanks for your concern. I am a converted atheist (as are all Christians) because, by God's grace, I have been permitted to see the foolishness of unbelief. I have heard all of his "arguments" before and my firm belief in God and His revelation of Himself remains. I really have two reasons for joining the discussion here. First I believe that logic itself is dependent on the worldview I receive from God's word. I want to help other believers understand that, since the Bible is divine revelation, we do not need to be afraid to face those who would challenge it's authority. There are some really hard questions that have equally hard answers but hiding from them will not strengthen our faith. Facing these hard sayings brings us face-to-face with the one true God and the realization that we are not Him. I want to be a clarifying voice in a murky cloud of misinformation for those less mature in the faith. Second, it is my sincere desire that God would use my reasoning from the scripture to impart his grace to Jelpy. I have talked with hundreds of atheists over the years, some who have thought deeply about their philosophy and some who really want to avoid thinking about it. I may not convince Jelpy but if he continues the conversation, he will be forced to grapple with the foolishness of his unbelief. The rest is in God's hands. Thanks for your care for those reading here.

Linda		09-Oct-2008 13:16
To Saved by God's love & Grace: Thank you for your quotations. I especially loved # 13 The LORD shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. Joseph & Geekbert: God Bless you for bringing light into the darkness! To Jelpy: I am laughing along with my Lord @ YOU! HA HA HA HA

Joseph (Just a father of two)		09-Oct-2008 04:50
Dear Geekbert Nice to see another showing this perp for what they are. Hanging around this site when you now know it was set up for harvesting away from God is a personal choice. Keep warning others if you stay and do not ever read what is offered by this perp. It is all from harvesting sites. Just show the reason they set this site up and warn others. I never bother to read the copy and paste garbage that the perp offers. I only skim and then I just warn others. I need to copy what was offered by the one posting as Satan. I found it funny and wish to put it all together in one post showing what I think the person was showing. I loved when they called themselves the Fluffy Bunny. How many fake gods can the Wicca/Pagans conger that Satan will accept as his own? All of them if it gets one away from God! God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		09-Oct-2008 04:33
Knowing Jelpy is not that intelligent I looked up what he/she is offering today. It is all copied from a site on De-converting Christians. Again I am warning everyone what this site was set up for. It is to first strip a God loving person down and then to offer Wicca and Paganism as an alternative. Take my warning seriously and do as Jesus taught those who are to spread the word. When we spread the message of Christ we can not force acceptance upon the heart. Instead we need to plant the seed and let it flourish and grow. It is not good to dwell on one who will consume our time in arguments and hostilities. In this are time is consumed and our abilities to share with others is taken away. We need to remember the twelve were also instructed to brush the sand from their feet and move on when this happens. Why then do we as Christian stand and argue? Show them for what they are (bringing the lies to light) and then walk away. Luke 9:5 (King James Version) �5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.� God Bless Joseph

geekbert		09-Oct-2008 04:07
So Jeply, you're adept at cut and paste, I'll give you that. How are at logic and reason? I'll grant that there is plenty in the list that turns my stomach (which proves nothing by the way). The world is a pretty harsh place and people are bent towards sin. That is exactly the message the Bible drives home again and again. You see, I can acknowledge that because I posit a universe where there is an absolute standard by which actions may be judged as evil or righteous. You, on the other hand, seem to posit a world free from such antiquated ideas yet you continue to invoke the in-your-brain cop to which you expect everyone to submit. Where do you get the idea of "evil' by which you condemn the long list of man's and God's behavior? Further, what makes you think that everyone else must recognize the validity of said standard? Listing 5,000 things that someone has done that you don't like is meaningless. Such a list does nothing to explain how you can justify the notion of anything being moral or immoral. Practically, it merely demonstrates that you have an opinion. In argumentation, it is known as begging the question. You said, "If you answer yes, then you're as monstrous as your fake god is represented!!!!" Please tell us on what basis. Says who?

Joseph (Just a father of two)		09-Oct-2008 02:33
Talk about a lot of posts to try and read after taking a day off for tending to people who are being targeted by overseas scams. I only to come back and see this scam of a site filled with more garbage. At least some of the posts are filled with loving faith, and some more are funny as heck. Then we get to the core posters and why this site was set up. By now those who have been here awhile know this site is for attacking any, and all who have a love for God. From the very beginning they were in wait for a target to come upon this site for they set it up like a beacon calling God children. They wait for a loving post to be offered and then they pounce. They post under many names supporting themselves and telling us to be silent for we are not being good listeners. This site is set up to destroy ones faith so they can offer their Pagan/Wicca ideas when stripped to the core. I do not need to prove this for the words offered upon this board will show this already. Walk away good people. Take what is good (The pictures) and walk away. Find a real site and grow in faith. God Bless Joseph

JELPY		09-Oct-2008 02:19
************************************************************************************************************ ******************************* TOP 50 BIBLE STORIES FOR KIDS ******************************* Everybody is in awe before bible stories, so here's a list of the "Top 50 Bible Stories for kids" as found on the net. Here they are (in biblical order). Which is your favorite amongst these 50 passages below? 1. "The serpent ... said unto the woman." Genesis 3:1-5 A clever serpent talks to Eve about trees, death, and the knowledge of good and evil. 2. "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children. ... Thy husband ... shall rule over thee." Genesis 3:16 God punishes Eve, and all women after her, with the pains of childbirth and subjection to men. 3. "The sons of God came in unto the daughters of men." Genesis 6:2-4 Angels had sex with women producing giant offspring. 4. "All flesh died that moved upon the earth." Genesis 7:21-23 God drowned everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 5. "Noah ... drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent." Genesis 9:20-25 Noah gets drunk and curses his grandson (and all his descendants) because his son saw him naked. 6. "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." Genesis 19:1-8 The just and righteous Lot offers his daughters to a sex-crazed mob of angel rapers. 7. "Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father." Genesis 19:30-38 Lot gets drunk and impregnates his virgin daughters. 8. "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son." Genesis 22:2-13 Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. 9. "When he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground." Genesis 38:8-10 God killed Onan for ejaculating outside of a vagina. 10. "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." Genesis 38:13-18 Judah has sex with his daughter-in-law and then orders her to be burned to death. 11. "The LORD met him, and sought to kill him." Exodus 4:24 God tries to kill Moses. (It had something to do with foreskins.) 12. "The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt." Exodus 12:29-30 God kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. "There was not a house where there was not one dead." 13. "Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and ... slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour." Exodus 32:27-28 God forces the people to kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf. 14. "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts." Exodus 33:20-23 God shows Moses his backparts. 15. "The sons of Aaron ... offered strange fire before the LORD... And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD... And Aaron held his peace." Leviticus 10:1-3 Aaron watched in silence as his sons were burned to death by God. 16. "Bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones." Leviticus 24:10-23 Moses orders the people to stone to death a man who cursed. "And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses." 17. "When the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them." Numbers 11:1 God burned people alive for complaining. 18. "And while the flesh was yet between their teeth ... the LORD smote the people with a very great plague." Numbers 11:4-33 God sent a great plague on the people for complaining about the food. 19. "And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses... And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them... and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow." Numbers 12:1-10 For criticizing Moses, God gave Miriam leprosy. 20. "A man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day." Numbers 15:32-36 God commands the people to stone to death a man who gathered sticks on the Sabbath. 21. "And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up." Numbers 16:20-35 Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God has the ground open up and swallow Korah, his companions, "and their wives, and their sons, and their little children." 22. "All the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD." Numbers 16:41-49 After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 incense burners, the people complained saying, "ye have killed the people of the Lord." So God, who doesn't take kindly to criticism, sent a plague on the people. And "they that died in the plague were 14,700." 23. "And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." Numbers 21:6 For complaining (again) about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died. 24. "And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam..." Numbers 22:23-30 Balaam and his donkey have a nice little chat. Apparently, they do this often, since Balaam isn't the least bit surprised when his donkey starts talking to him. 25. "Phinehas ... thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." Numbers 25:1-13 While God is talking to Moses about hanging up dead bodies, one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman. When Phinehas (Aaron's grandson) sees the happy couple, he throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. 26. "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:1-54 Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they let some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." 27. "I have a message from God unto thee." Judges 3:15-22 Ehud delivers a "message from God" to the king of Moab: a knife thrust so deeply into the king's belly that it could not be extracted, "and the dirt came out." 28. "Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground." Judges 4:17-23 Jael offers food and shelter to a traveler (Sisera, Jabin's captain), saying "turn in my Lord ... fear not." Then after giving him a glass of milk and tucking him in, she drives a tent stake through his head. 29. "As a dog lappeth" Judges 7:4-7 God picks the men to fight in Gideon's army by the way they drink water. Only those that lap water with their tongues, "as a dog lappeth," shall fight in Gideon's Holy War. 30. "At the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed." Judges 11:29-39 Jephthah sacrifices his daughter to God. 31. "Samson went and caught three hundred foxes." Judges 15:4-5 Samson catches 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets them on fire. 32. "The Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him... And he found a new jawbone of an ass ... and slew a thousand men therewith." Judges 15:14-15 When the spirit of the Lord comes upon Samson, he kills 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. 33. "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you." Judges 19:22-30 After taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite puts her dead body on an ass and takes it home. Then he chops the body up into twelve pieces and sends a piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. 34. "And they had emerods in their secret parts." 1 Samuel 5:6-12 God smites the people of Ashdod with hemorrhoids "in their secret parts." 35. "Because they had looked into the ark of the LORD" 1 Samuel 6:19 God kills 50,070 for looking into the ark. 36. "And the spirit of God came upon Saul ... and he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coast of Israel." 1 Samuel 11:6-7 People do the strangest things when the Spirit of God comes upon them. 37. "Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." 1 Samuel 15:2-3 God orders Saul to kill all of the Amalekites: men, women, infants, sucklings, ox, sheep, camels, and asses. Why? Because God remembers what Amalek did hundreds of years ago. 38. "And David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife." 1 Samuel 18:25-27 David buys his first wife with 200 Philistine foreskins. 39. "The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." 2 Samuel 12:13-18 To punish David for having Uriah killed and causing others to blaspheme, God kills Bathsheba's baby boy. 40. "So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel ... and there died of the people ... seventy thousand men." 2 Samuel 24:1-15 Because of David's census (which God inspired), Go killed 70,000 men (and probably around 200,000 women and children). 41. "And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not." 1 Kings 1:1-4 Poor old king David could get no heat. So they searched throughout the kingdom for a beautiful virgin. They found one (Abishag), and she "cherished the king, and ministered to him," but he still couldn't get any heat. 42. "If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty." 2 Kings 1:9-12 Elijah shows that he is "a man of God" by burning 102 men to death. He did the job in two shifts of 51 men each. 43. "And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape... and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there." 1 Kings 18:22-40 Elijah killed 450 religious leaders in a prayer contest. 44. "Go up thou bald head." 2 Kings 2:23-24 God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head. 45. "The whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters." Matthew 8:28-34 The devils ask Jesus to cast them into a herd of pigs. He does, and the poor pigs run off into the sea and drown. 46. "For the time of figs was not yet." Mark 11:13 Jesus curses a fig tree for not having fruit (even though it was not the right season for figs). 47. "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19:11-27 Jesus explains in a parable that those who refuse to submit to him will be killed before him. 48. "Behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost." Acts 5:1-10 Peter scares Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 49. "The hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind." Acts 13:8-11 Paul and the Holy Ghost make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 50. "The angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost." Acts 12:23 The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." Of course these biblical verses are real. Are they awesome or rather awful?!! Are they awesome or rather gruesome?!! Would you really tell us that stories like #6, 26 and 33 (or any other ones for that matter) were inspired and even performed by a just, wise and merciful god?!!! If you answer yes, then you're as monstrous as your fake god is represented!!!! And tell us your favorite story amongst the 50 above passages. JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

geekbert		09-Oct-2008 02:03
Jeply, it's very curious that you would first visit a site that you deem nonsense and then proceed to argue for weeks with people here that what they believe is nonsense. If it is such nonsense, one would think you would just ignore it. However, you obviously have an obsession with "nonsense". I'd like to know how you can say, "There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without 'needing' to have some sky-cop spying on them!!!" You have obviously not considered the implications of your statement. In it, you assume the fruits of the very thing you are arguing against. In some of your other posts, you use words like "evil" and in the one I cite, you talk about "decent lives". Do you understand that apart from a "sky-cop", as you call it (or at least some form of sky law-something transcendent), those terms are meaningless and morality is merely conventional at best or delusional at worst. I'm sure you're going to disagree. Please, be my guest and lay down the logic. Please demonstrate how, in a universe comprised merely of matter, there can be any transcendent standard of morality like the one you use to call God's actions evil. You will be bound to acknowledge that you are merely attempting to be the sky cop and forcing your will as morality. I would recommend that when you come to this realization that you humbly bow and confess that there is a God and you are not Him.

Ike		09-Oct-2008 00:34
Jelpy you are either really dumb (or should I say "stoopid") or you put on one good act. May God have mercy on your soul brother or sister - whatever the case may be. You've done nothing on this site except to prove yourself an ignorant, uneducated, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants idiot. You're living proof of the phrase, keep your mouth closed and let everyone think you're an idiot rather than opening it and proving it. Dumb. Sad and plain dumb. Wow.

Rod		08-Oct-2008 14:16
This is awesome. So may hateful comments, but then GOd said the Just shall live by faith, and agin in Hebrews "it is impossible to please Him with out faith"

JELPY		08-Oct-2008 05:22
************************************************************************************************************ To visitor named "Me" (message: 07-Oct-2008 04:14) ----------Quoting you---------- "JELPY 06-Oct-2008 04:17 TO ALL: If to live a good life you have to fear a sky big brother waving a hammer stamped "hell" then I pity your lacking life and all those around you. There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without "needing" to have some sky-cop spying on them!!! " _____________________________________ Jelpy... We don't fear a "sky brother". We live to please our Father. ----------End of quote---------- I didn't say that you >, but a "sky BIG brother". Then you're a lying tongue because you call yourselves "GOD FEARING XIANS"!!!! ----------Quoting you---------- As for the 10 million agnostics that don't "need" it... Yes they do. ----------End of quote---------- Again you miss a lot of words and therefore the sense of it all: I didn't say "10 million agnostics", but "tens of millions", please note the "S" after "ten"; then instead of "agnostics" after "tens of millions", I wrote "non-theists": the complete part of that sentence being "There are tens of millions of non-theists..." Further in the same sentence I added "...who live decent lives without "needing" to have some sky-cop spying on them!!!" If you prefer I would change the place of the words it would read that the non-theists don't need to fear a sky-cop spying on them to live decent lives!!! So if you're so much reading challenged (you miss words) and comprehension challenged (you miss the correct sense of the phrases), then I offer you should find a way to greatly enhance the level of those 2 skills before you write again!!! No wonder that with that level you believe in all those mythical lies from your hole-y book!!! In fact it is no wonder that the lower the education of people in general the more they believe in all those mythical lies from this and other hole-y books!!! Have you ever noticed that the poorer and lower educated people are, the higher their level of religious fervors is: - third world countries - Islamic countries (which incidentally are 3rd world countries as well!!!!) - people living in remote areas far from cities, all around the world - people living in ghettos all around the world (AND that INCLUDES the U.S.) "Me" you're a great living proof of this!!!! Congrats!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		08-Oct-2008 04:31
************************************************************************************************************ Poor Linda, Obviously enough you missed (whether intentionally or not) this very important, even vital phrase from one of the sites you linked to: http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ararat.htm ------------Quote------------ There have been many expeditions, accounts, ALLEGED SIGHTINGS, anomalies, and claims of discovery involving Mount Ararat. WHAT IS LACKING IS ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OR PHOTO THAT SHOWS THAT NOAH'S ARK SURVIVED UNTIL TODAY. However, one should also consider the possibility that Noah's Ark landed on Mount Ararat and was subsequently destroyed, which is the possibility alluded to in the article Even IF NOAH�S ARK IS NOT PROVEN, NOAH�S ARK STILL COULD HAVE LANDED ON MOUNT ARARAT. ------------End of quote------------ Please note again: "ALLEGED SIGHTINGS" ...and: "WHAT IS LACKING IS ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OR PHOTO THAT SHOWS THAT NOAH'S ARK SURVIVED UNTIL TODAY." ...and: "IF NOAH�S ARK IS NOT PROVEN, NOAH�S ARK STILL COULD HAVE LANDED ON MOUNT ARARAT." Did you read like me: "A-L-L-E-G-E-D SIGHTINGS" and "LACKING...EVIDENCE" and "NOAH�S ARK IS NOT PROVEN"!!! So Linda YOU YOURSELF PROVE ME RIGHT WHEN I WROTE: (07-Oct-2008 03:35) "Either you are extremely naive, extremely stoopid or extremely deceitful!!!" I think you're a combo of all three!! Any other question?!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		08-Oct-2008 04:09
TO ALL: Do you believe in Santa Claus?!! Nobody ever answered that one!! If yes, please tell why, and if no, please tell why. Thanks. .

JELPY		08-Oct-2008 02:42
************************************************************************************************************ To visitor named "Me" (message: 07-Oct-2008 11:04) ----------Quoting you---------- "How can any person in the 21st century think god is a loveable deity when he murders,lies,commits sins,aids and abetts criminal activiyty(like tell Abraham to kill his son)? Are you stupid?" Duke... You need to research the Bible before you disredit it. God did not, nor does He, do the things you've mentioned. Satan does. There is nothing evil about God at all. ----------End of quote---------- Do you really believe that "There is nothing evil about God at all"?!!! You must have never read the bible to say big, fat lies like this: God was angry twice a Moses (Exodus 4 mentionned already). Anger is evil THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!! God commanded the murder of hundreds of thousands of people: in the promised land, all the homosexuals (jeez, how many million homosexuals would be put to death nowadays if your evil god had his ways!!!!), all those who worship other gods (jeez, how many billion Hindus, Sikhs, Jainists, Shintoists, etc. would be put to death nowadays if your evil god had his ways!!), all the rebellious youth who don't want to change (jeez, how many hundreds of million youth would be put to death nowadays if your evil god had his ways!!), all those who work on the Shabat Day (jeez, how many hundreds of million people working in health and transportation and entertainment and sports and hotels and food, etc. business would be put to death nowadays if your evil god had his ways!!!!!!!!), THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!! God himself killed all of the firstborn Egyptians, THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!! Because god was too stoopid to send the wise men to Herod (first visit) then when he saw they didn't return (second visit) because they had been warned in their dream, Herod had all the males below 2 years of age been killed, THEREFORE GOD IS EXTREMELY STOOPID AND EVIL!! God himself killed all of the world population, an estimated 30 million people at the time of Noah, THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!! God had 20 youths killed by 2 she-bears when they mocked Elija's baldness and he prayed god, THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!!!! God himself killed many other people individually or in small groups, THEREFORE GOD IS EVIL!! ----------------READ A LOT MORE HERE:---------------- http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html God created Satan The Prince of evil, THEREFORE GOD IS THE FATHER OF EVIL!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CONCLUSION: GOD IS THE GRAND MASTER OF ALL THE EVIL JERKS... OR HE DOESN'T EXIST!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

RICARDO		08-Oct-2008 01:03
HI,THE MOST AMAZING THING DO I SEE IN MY 43 YEARS. LA COSA MAS IMPACTANTE QUE HE VISTO EN MIS 43 A�OS. WOW FROM PUERTO RICO ISLAND

Linda		07-Oct-2008 23:58
Jelpy is denying the TRUTH even when faced with it in black and white.......... People The tangilbe and irrefutable "PROOF" about the ARK read Nuclear Scientist Robert Faid's PUBLISHED book "Scientific approach to Biblical Mysteries" !!!!!!! Did you know....................? There are many ancient writers & TEXT that have made mention of the flood and seeing the ARK . At least as far back as 200BC there are written records of Noah's ARK being seen on a Mountain by the name of ARARAT----EXACTLY where the Bible says it came to rest!!! In 1883 a quake struck Mt. Ararat, which caused the Turkish Government to send out a team to investigate the damage. This team stumbled upon the ARK most of which was imbedded in a glacier. Through one of the broken and exposed corners they were able to enter it for a short distance, finding the interior partitioned off into compartments about 12-15' high. Now how could a structure, which has reportedly been seen by many people end up on top of a 17,000 ft Mountain? Was it contructed there? No as it is above the tree line and far too steep to carry the massive timbers up the mountain. Timbers that were NOT from the area. Ararat is a volcanoe some thousands of miles deep. If the land mass rose as a result of volcanic action this wooden structure would have been destroyed by the molten lava.. The only other possible solution was that it was constructed elsewhere and FLOATED to its present location. Which means there had to be a flood of unimaginable magnitude and written about since back to 200 BC!!!!! How can you refute such tangible evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are NOT words taken out of thin air but written by a NUCLEAR SCIENTIST!!! HELLO!!! What part of denial are YOU in?

Water Nymph		07-Oct-2008 19:05
Here we go with the name calling. That is all we need having Joseph come back right now posting from the Real Gods Bible. I have other places to be but I will check in and see how the twisting of their real God�s word in being handleled soon. Lusifer

Linda		07-Oct-2008 18:52
Jelpy, You wanted Links? Here ya go!!!! The explorers of Ararat � www.noahsarksearch.com Genesis files - www.genesisfiles.com ArcImaging - www.arcimaging.org Bible & Spade - www.biblearchaeology.org ICR - www.icr.org AIG - www.answeringgenesis.org

Guest		07-Oct-2008 18:24
Joseph (father of two), are you the one posting as Lucifer?

Mighty Frog		07-Oct-2008 18:09
Sarah you are doing great. Keep offering you do not worship me and destroying the fath of others. Have them pick a congered creature to call me by and keep them believing it is not me they are worshiping. I will go by whatever name they like to call me by as long as it get them away from the true God. We have a war coming in the after life and you will need help. Keep lieing to the Christians and all who worship the true God. I bet you are happy this site was set up to harvest after subduing and silencing the Christians. Christians are so easy they can not even see what this site is really all about even when the words are already offered and easy to see. I need to go. Someone is worshiping me as the water nymph. She is a lesbian and does funny thing when worshiping. I need to see the way she uses her body for unnatural acts of carnage. Lusifer

Blue ferries		07-Oct-2008 17:54
Grateful are you now confused by all the names? was a real person and not one of my dominions sent to destroy faith. Are you stupider then I am and forgot the game plan already? I explaned it all under my worshiped name Snuffalopogus. Check back and get with the program. You are not going to get to hell on ignorance alone and need to keep up. I need to go. Someone is trying to worsip me as the toothfarry again and this will not do. How do I plan on harvesting the souls if being called by a toothfarry. People will know this is a frawd. It is bad enough some worthless followers are worshiping me as Snuffalopogus but I try to accept any name they conger as long as it takes them away from worsiping the only true God. You are so stupid you got the one called seeing you as you really are. Again get with the program of I will not accept you calling me the Mighty Frog tonight when you worship and conger. Lucifer

Sarah		07-Oct-2008 17:50
To the person who calls himself Lucifer, I am not Jelpy who is more informed than I about a lot of things. I am also not a wiccan, yes I am a Christo-pagan but I am not a Wiccan. A Mormon would not say he is the same as a Catholic, or that he believes the same things, just because they are both under the umbrella of Chritianity. And by the way, Pagans don't believe in the devil, Lucifer, or whatever you want to call yourself. Your antics are ridiculous. Grow up.

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 17:41
:) This is fun. The Christians posting on this site are so kind and generous. I've called no one names or denied God's existence or Jesus's existence. I've not disagree with the Bible, but in the last hour or so I've been called an idiot, nutcase, swine, infidel, and unemployed. Wow!

NI		07-Oct-2008 17:35
by reading this.. grateful gets their nose in everyones conversation... (and will come back saying I am doing the same...)... no because I will not respond again.. grateful needs a job.

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 17:24
I can't believe this. Apparently a Christian assumes that one person is posting as Sarah/Guest/Just Guest/JELPY/Grateful and is upset by that. So, what's this person's plan: post under different names Lucifer. This is the craziest thing ever! Creative? Very. Sick and twisted? Certainly A Christian posting as Satan? Priceless

Snowdragon		07-Oct-2008 17:17
JUST GUEST how dar you agree with me in mokery. I was talking to my dominions who run this site. I had them set this site up to destroy all faiths so I could harvest and feed on the torn souls. It could be I typed it wrong. The dang keybords keep melting. I am not the brightest rock to fall from grace but I am powerful and have others doing my will. They offer their babies as a sacrifice still today calling it free will and a womans right. Millions killed everyyear and Obama even support partial birth abortions. This is great for the childs head come out and then they slit the throat whill still partially inside the mothers womb. Obama is one of my best for he calls himself a Christian and says who is to say when life begins. Americans support this man and in this they add to the sacrifices. Yes the True God see this and will know how well Christians care for the babie who cry out from the mothers womb and soak the ground with their inocets and blood. Call me Lucifer or you can call me by a nicer name if it gets you to turn from God. Call me fluffy bunny. Some like this name and I do not care what you call me by.

blessing		07-Oct-2008 17:14
wow these pictures are facinating...would love to go there and see this in person

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 17:09
Christians who are confronted for calling people names are not being trashed. Only Lucifer could get folks to justify name-calling and not apologize for making false statements.

Fluffy bunny		07-Oct-2008 16:59
Sarah guest grateful sorry I get confused what name you are using right now. Just keep attacking the Christians and all who love the TRUE God and then trash them if they get upset. The Christians are too stupid to see we set this site up as a trap. I am being called by one who calls me snowdragon. Just wanted you to know you are doing my evil works well. Lucifer

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 16:57
If by "pearl" you mean calling others "idiot" and "nutcase," then please, by all means, stop casting your pearls before the rest of the world! I repeat: when have I even once said a negative word about God. I simply point out how un-Christian you are acting and you call me "idiot" and "nutcase."

Just Guest		07-Oct-2008 16:54
Who could have imagined this big structure would prompt all this heated discussion. Wow! Snuffalopogus, you way too much time on your hands. That's funny, real funny. I'll get a smile out of that the rest of the day. I'm Just Guest, not Sarah or JELPY.

Guest		07-Oct-2008 16:54
from one guest to another guest... the bible says "dont cast your pearl before the swine".. and this so-called "grateful" is obviousley a pig so lets let the pig alone.he/she just wants to argue.. you are right... they are deff. an infidel as our bible tells us..

Snuffalopogus		07-Oct-2008 16:50
Sarah this is your congered God. How dare you say you are not wicca. Did you not offer the wiccas are under your umbrella for being pagans? Why do you forsake them when it gets a little hot? Trust me I planed a very hot spot for you here along with all the others I have turned away from the ONE REAL God. Do not hide that you practice against the bible. Do not hide that you creat false images under my name. Just act like this is the new way and keep denying that you are Jelpy. I had you set this site up for harvesting away from the TRUE god creator of all. Creating the idea of calling yourselves Christ pagans was great for it is now my best tool of deception for destroying God�s childrens faith and having them go against God and the salvation only Jesus can offer. I will talk with you again soon my daughter of Satan�s words. I am needed by one who calles me the fluffy bunny. She has no idea who I am that she is really worshiping so keep this from being known. Just keep posting like you are different people and keep the Christians on the run. We will get some in the end. I already have you for you are spreading my lies of free will. Just keep doing as I am asking. Keep posting as jelpy to get the Christians to stand up against and then post as guest and say �Oh my God I cannot believe Christians are talking like that� This will make them silence their minds against what Jesus had taught. They do not even remember they are to rebuke me openly. Little by littleyou will get them. Lucifer

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 16:44
Duly noted. Your comments make my point ever more obvious. Take notice everyone, this is the comment of a Christian to someone he or she has never met: "I along with many others know what an idiot you are.. i do not have time for anymore of this childish stuff...I DO have a life.... Good day you NUTCASE.... no need to reply with your stupid little temper temper things... that just shows imaturiity...it is obvious i got the last laugh..hahahaha" If getting the last laugh is important, it seems that Jesus had the last laugh by dying for those who jeered and mocked. My how far his followers have fallen. By the way, when have I ever said a negative word about God? I only made comments about Guest. Hmmm...

Guest		07-Oct-2008 16:40
negaticve comments about God are made by infidels.. and what a lame excuse why people do not follow Jesus.. I along with many others know what an idiot you are.. i do not have time for anymore of this childish stuff...I DO have a life.... Good day you NUTCASE.... no need to reply with your stupid little temper temper things... that just shows imaturiity...it is obvious i got the last laugh..hahahaha

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 16:38
All of us who are aren't as charitable and loving as Christians like you, Guest, are waiting to hear your justificiation for such vitriol. Do justify yourself. Tell us why you are acting like this and saying things like this. Tell us why it is okay to call complete strangers "idiots" and "infidels." Please explain away all that you have done.

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 16:33
Temper, temper! How did you know I am an idiot? And you also claim to know that I am an "infidel." So "negative" comments are only made by "infidels." Love the logic. You exemplify Christian love at its best! Congratulations, you are the reason many "infidels" refuse to follow Jesus.

guest		07-Oct-2008 16:23
your welcome you "ungrateful" idiot.. I was speaking of the megative things about the work this man has done...not about negative comments about infidels like you..

Grateful		07-Oct-2008 16:12
Thanks for more negative comments, Guest. Such a Christ-like thing to say.

guest		07-Oct-2008 16:06
I feel sorry for the people making the Negative comments... they obviousley are miserable and need to get a life.... but us Christians know where we will be when we die.. and we also know where the athiest will be too.

PM		07-Oct-2008 15:52
Nice boat. It's great to see Christians using such biting sarcasm iand name-calling in their interaction with non-Christians. Way to go, Linda. You are acting so much like Jesus it's really hard to tell the difference!

Linda		07-Oct-2008 14:43
Jelpy, you stated: If you'd give a link to articles published in a reputable newspaper or magazine, with pictures and scientific studies of the alleged "ark" and verifiable sightings of the ark in ancient times, you might have a point, but here you're grotesque!!! **************** The tangilbe and irrefutable "PROOF" I wrote about the ARK came directly from Nuclear Scientist Robert Faid in his PUBLISHED book "Scientific approach to Biblical Mysteries" which proves to me that you will refuse proof no matter what proof is given to you. And you call US "Stoopid"? To use your words: It is YOU who is insane, moronic and grotesque and may I add, VILE!!!

Sarah		07-Oct-2008 14:43
To Joseph, I was asking the question to prove a point to "ME" not because I didn't know the answer. And no, I am not Jelpy, nor am I wiccan but I have already told you this. I was not trying to offer "the pagan/wicca way of understanding," I was merely trying to explain why I have chosen this path for MY life. I never said that it was appropriate for others or even tried to sway others into my beliefs. But whatever, take what I have written out of context and twist my words. I really don't care. By the way, I couldn't be Jelpy because Jelpy does not believe in God and I do. I understand where Jelpy is coming from with all the questioning though because that is where I am with my life. Just because I have doubts about the Bible and questions, to me, it dosen't make me any less of a believer in God.

Me		07-Oct-2008 11:04
"People should question things and if you still come out of it believing in the same things you do now, then that would be great, but at least you would know a little better why you believe in those things and be able to explain them better. Rather than just saying "I believe because the Bible tells me to." You would also be able to explain, in your own words, the points that you are trying to make, rather than quoting the Bible." ___________________________ You're absolutely right, Sarah. Some do question, and then we reserach for ourselves. I gave you my words - and others' - as your answers. Obviously there's a scriptural verse thrown in there, but that's for your reference as to where to find it in the Bible - not because I didn't know the answer to your question. Those of us that believe and study are able to find many versions of the "answers", as have you, supposedly. The difference is that believers choose to believe the Bible (blindly - as we have not actually "seen") and live our lives accordingly. You clearly are not searching for real answers - since you try to discredit all given to you - so it would be kind of you to stop testing our knowledge and our faith. It won't work for whatever purposes you want it to work for. You asked questions, I gave you some answers and directed you towhere you could find all the answers to all your questions. You choose not to, so that is on you now. My job here is done. The seeds are planted. God will now water them throughout the rest of your life if you let Him. If not... Sorry my dear, but you'll see one day. I pray, as I do for all lost souls, that you make the ever important decision to come (or return) to Christ. He's waiting there, knocking on the door of your heart. All you have to do is invite Him in and ask Him to forgive you. Praise God, it's as simple as that. :o) ________________________________ "How can any person in the 21st century think god is a loveable deity when he murders,lies,commits sins,aids and abetts criminal activiyty(like tell Abraham to kill his son)? Are you stupid?" Duke... You need to research the Bible before you disredit it. God did not, nor does He, do the things you've mentioned. Satan does. There is nothing evil about God at all. Jesus came to seek the lost. When he was beaten, we were healed. When he died, He paid our debts so that we wouldn't have to. The "criminal activity" was hardly that. If you've finished that story, God spared Abe's son with a lamb. God was merely testing Abe's faith, as I've pointed out in a previus posting. When God realized that Abraham was that faithful to his God, God blessed Abraham abundantly! What an awesome story that is!!! :o) Are we stupid? No. We're just saved. Praise God!!! :o) Take care and God bless! He forgives us all for everything we've ever done or thought. All we need to do is to believe and ask Him (Jesus) to come into our hearts and forgive us. How cool is that?! :o) (John 3:16) __________________________________ Again, to all... Many answers were written here by Godly people. There are even other sites that have been mentioned so you can all search the answers for yourselves. My work is done here. If you're looking for sincere help and answers, please find a Bible, either book form or on-line, and search our your own answers. Find a church that you might even be comfortable slipping into the back row in. God will see your earnest heart and reward you with what you've been looking for - if you're sincere. It's all up to you. You have a choice to make. Make the right one before it's too late. The responsibility is on you at this point. You can no longer blame others for your ignorance. God bless and keep searching. You're clearly not at peace with where you're at or you wouldn't be here... :o) The Truth is out there for you, but you have to go find it yourselves. Farewell my friends...

Duke		07-Oct-2008 09:54
Why did create the earth? Was he bored? Did god give his angels free will before he gave it to man? Remember Lucifer and St. Michael?How can any person in the 21st century think god is a loveable deity when he murders,lies,commits sins,aids and abetts criminal activiyty(like tell Abraham to kill his son)? Are you stupid?

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:30
It turns out the links for sites offering both Photographs of the Ark and Videos are abundant to be found on the Internet. I am adding some links to our links section on our new site at: ://groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/ It is an open forum site with the front page offering a clickable link to our links page for easy reference. You will also find a clickable link to the KJV of the Bible as well as one right back to this site. Come share with one another without the heartaches found slithering into this forum. God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:17
(2nd part of 2 parts) Why did I offer Romans 1 verses 1 through 32 (King James Version)? Is Jesus to be our servant? Is he to do our bidding and just become a get out of jail free card and a free ticket to sin? This is what the fluff preachers are instilling in offering such. They lower Christ to that of a Wicca/Pagan created God. Some just create new Gods on a whim like a snowy dragon for it fit their Bi-polar personality. Is this what we are doing with Jesus? Are we trying to change all he has done to meet our needs (desires) instead of accepting his love as offered? Some preachers of today think they themselves can offer the forgiveness of another. They do not teach as Jesus had instructed. Showing a sin as a sin is essential if wanting to show the path towards salvation. We are not making up the laws or passing Judgment. God created the Laws and the Judgments are already written. We can not save ourselves and can certainly not save one another. We can only show the path towards Jesus. Be very careful if doing as Paul. If you show a sin as a sin be ready to offer twice as long the path towards the salvation of forgiveness that only he (Jesus) can give. It might seem to some that I keep offering upon this site. If this be the case I am sorry for I am only trying to show what the Bible offers. The only true answers will be found in God�s inspired word already written. Get yourselves a bowl of cereal and feed your body as you feed your soul. My head hurts now peoples. I am trying so hard to do right in showing meaning, in my words offered, that I fear I am failing at the task. For the words I offer take what you find right and discard what you do not. For the words I have shown from the Bible itself discard nothing for all is of his hand. I am just a man with a Bible in my hand. My words added only represent my own heart trying to share. As a Bible reading Christian man I am required to share. I humbly accept I am flawed as are we all. God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:16
(1st part of 2 parts) Why did I offer Romans 1 verses 1 through 32 (King James Version)? This is an important area for many reasons. One reason is it shows us how Jesus taught the teachers to teach. In this we need to pay attention when offering others. Jesus did not waver in showing a sin as a sin. Showing acceptance of sin was never acceptable. Jesus became angered one time well known in the Bible. It was when a Temple for worshiping God was used for sin. This was showing acceptance of the sinful world in God�s name. Paul did not hesitate in showing a sin as a sin. If not accepting what is sinful how can salvation ever be found? What would Jesus find in many calling themselves Christians offering in the name of Jesus today? If it be acceptance of sin in the name of Jesus then you have become tied to the sins you offer acceptance upon and have walked away from Jesus. Yes you have lead people to sin and tainted the hearts of many. The Judgment will fall upon your heard for all you lead astray. Paul did as Jesus had taught by example many times during his days in the flesh. Paul shared this with the sinners as Jesus had so requested. We are not Paul and yet these are the examples we are to follow as Jesus taught how to spread the message to others. So you think you can do this? You have seen the fire and brimstone sermons and are ready to go out and give someone two scoops? We know there are many that call themselves Christians that do just that, but then they have not a clue as to what being a Christian is all about. It is better you stay home and get your own two scoops from a box or Raisin Bran while opening your Bible then going and listening to such preached from an alter by one who is suppose to know better. For every one soul they bring closer to God through fear they chase three more in need of the love of Jesus away. I said Jesus taught by example, but it would be better to say he showed his love. Jesus came into this world to offer love and salvation. How would such fire and brimstone serve the idea in spreading his love? Jesus is love and compassion for all who seek. The shortest verse written show how close his love is tied to our happiness and well being. The grace of God flowed in all who were willing to hear as he forgave the sinners and healed the inflicted. He offered the salvation from sin. Jesus is all about compassion forgiveness and salvation for all who long for closeness with our Heavenly Father. He showered the people with a tenderness unsurpassed. He humbled himself before man to show the level we should offer one another. Paul preached this as well. Paul taught we were no longer bound to sin for Jesus offered forgiveness of sin so we could be right with God the father almighty. I am sure you could do this and spread the knowledge we are no longer bound to the sin and how Jesus walked the earth forgiving us our transgression. You can offer he died for the sinner and not the ones who say they have not sinned. Forgiveness free for the taking. Two scoops of love and again I offer staying at home with the Bible and having two scoops of cereal. How many preachers offer as if forgiveness is automatically given? This will greatly grow a congregation, but at a great cost to the eternal soul. It will also have the Bible reading Christians walking out the doors knowing forgiveness came at great cost and is not to be squandered in rhetoric of fluffy bunny sermons.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:14
Part 2 of 2 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:14
Part 1 of 2 Let us keep in mind this was written by Paul whom Jesus taught and sent to offer. Read this carefully for I am not above Paul in offering. I will let his words offered speak for themselves. This one little area shows a bit of everything inflicting this site. I could easily take you back to Leviticus showing Gods Righteous Judgments, but some need to see it in the New Testament thinking the laws had somehow changed. Jesus never changed the Laws. He came for our salvation should we repent and turn from sin. We all fall short and Yes some are already lost as if never known. Romans 1 (King James Version) 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. 13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		07-Oct-2008 06:09
Sarah your lack of understanding what transpired when Jesus descended during death shows why you were swept away in worshiping created gods. Yes some Wicca�s worship fluffy bunnies along with the snowy dragons. Look it up what you seek yourself Sarah or was this not acceptable for you in your devotion to Jesus from the beginning? My own daughter could answer what you ask when she was 13 years of age. Why do you think this is so hard unless you never really sought? I do not need to answer what you should know already. If you do not then this was by choice and not on others. Answering upon this site is worthless for this site was set up as a harvesting grounds. I was expecting you and Jelpy to find common ground for this was a harvesting site set up for a reason. Jelpy casts uncertainty and you offer the Pagan/Wicca way to understanding. How predictable was this? As I have said Jelpy could be yourself and this is your true profile name. This site was obviously set up to attack any and all who love God. Good cop bad cop harvesting. Well played. How many from your cult are helping? Jelpy might not be you and several others using the name guest could be helping. Again to those being attacked I offer another site to share upon. It is not over run with those trying to convert you to becoming a Pagan/Wicca type worshiping the fluffy Bunnies. We are only 7 members but we all came from this site thinking it was good. The only thing good about this site is the Pictures the rest is for the likes of Jelpy and the cohorts for they run the forum. Joseph AKA The Trembling man at: //groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/

Sarah		07-Oct-2008 05:08
To Jelpy -- Thanks for your honest answer. That is the point that I have been trying to make all along. No one has all the answers and no one ever will. To ME and anyone else who feels the need to "teach me something"----- When Roman's ruled, they persecuted the Christians, when Christians were the "main" religion (for lack of a better term), they persecuted the pagans, many religions have persecuted many other religions for many years. For people to say that their way is the only way is ridiculous to me. The Bible and Jesus came after many men had already lived on the earth, so to say that it is the only way is ridiculous to me. That is why I became a Christo-pagan. I asked the hard questions and when people couldn't answer them (and I couldn't find the answers for myself) I decided to find something that fit my life and my beliefs better. I'm not saying that anyone has to agree with my choice for my life, but what I am saying is that I have been preached at all my life, I have asked the hard questions and not gotten answers, and I have chosen to "walk this path" because of those things. I will not, however, let anyone talk down to me, preach to me, or treat me like I need to be "saved." My dad was a member of our churches priesthood and if he can accept the fact that this is what I have chosen for myself then so can a bunch of strangers whose opinion doesn't matter to me anyway. The only thing that I have been trying to do on here is to get people to see that is a little naive to not ask any questions about something that has a major affect on how you live your lives. I think it's strange that so many people in society just believe what they are told by men or women who tell them to believe in it. I also think it's strange that so many people believe in a book that for all you know could be translated completely wrong. People should question things and if you still come out of it believing in the same things you do now, then that would be great, but at least you would know a little better why you believe in those things and be able to explain them better. Rather than just saying "I believe because the Bible tells me to." You would also be able to explain, in your own words, the points that you are trying to make, rather than quoting the Bible.

MR		07-Oct-2008 04:19
I received this little blurb via email, and thought it worth sharing... A woman was asked by a coworker, 'What is it like to be a Christian?' The coworker replied, 'It is like being a pumpkin.' God picks you from the patch, brings you in, and washes all the dirt off of you. Then He cuts off the top and scoops out all the yucky stuff. He removes the seeds of doubt, hate, and greed. Then He carves you a new smiling face and puts His light inside of you to shine for all the world to see.' * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I thought it was appropriate to share, considering the context of conversation. : )

Me		07-Oct-2008 04:14
"JELPY 06-Oct-2008 04:17 TO ALL: If to live a good life you have to fear a sky big brother waving a hammer stamped "hell" then I pity your lacking life and all those around you. There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without "needing" to have some sky-cop spying on them!!! " _____________________________________ Jelpy... We don't fear a "sky brother". We live to please our Father. Just like our earthly fathers, if they were decent parents, God wants to give us everything He can. He's not going to "stamp" us to hell. If we've accepted His Son, Jesus Christ, as our Lord and Saviour, we're going to Heaven. There's no fear of being "stamped" elsewhere. In fact, it's the most amazing peace you'll ever experience. My prayer is that you get to experience it before it's too late. As for the 10 million agnostics that don't "need" it... Yes they do. They just may not realize it yet. Without the "Blessed Assurance" of eternal salvation, we have nothing. What a depressing reason for living. What's the point? How very sad for all non-believers. Father God, please soften their hearts and let them hear your words through me and other like me that are trying to teach them. Let your light shine through, Father God. All for your glory... In Jesus' name, amen. :o) Sleep well my friends.

Me		07-Oct-2008 04:03
Sarah 07-Oct-2008 00:43 "Dear Me, I also had one other thought for you. You believe that the only way to get to heaven and God is through Jesus right? So what about the people who lived before Jesus, did they go to hell? I figured I would ask you since you have all of the answers." ________________________ My dear Sarah... I do not have all the answers nor have I ever professed to, but I might have found that one in God's Word. Basically, the answer to your question is yes, to a degree... Prior to Jesus' life and death, there was another covenant believers were under. We, nowadays, are under the "New Covenant". If they, back then - during the "Old Covenant" - believed in God and lived by His commandments, people who died before Christ's birth and teachings certainly did have the opportunity to be saved. Before Jesus came to earth you could still be saved through believing in God. Back then sins had to be paid for with sacrifices. Now, though, since Jesus' final sacrifice, our sins are paid for by His death on the cross for us. The Old Testament people died and their souls went to the heart of the earth to a place of rest, where they waited for Christ to be born, and to die and go down and bring them up and take them back to Heaven with Him, which was technically when the New Testament began (refer to Hebrews 9:16-17). From the time that God spoke to Adam and Eve in the garden, after their sin, He explained that there would be One Who would come, the Seed of the Woman, Who would overcome sin and death, by 'crushing the head of the serpent', but in the process His heel would be bruised. This spoke to them of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world, and He would do so by taking that sin upon Himself, be 'bruised' by the Adversary on the cross, and that very act of dying there paid OUR death for us, so that we could again enjoy, as did Adam and Eve before their fall, the very presence of our Creator, enjoy His love and provision for our every need. Today we CAN enjoy that presence, even in the midst of the darkness around us, simply by accepting that One Sacrifice that God DOES approve of, by accepting the payment in our behalf for the death we were doomed to. But, from the very beginning, it required first belief, and then ACCEPTANCE, of that sacrifice in our place. Without that sacrifice, we have to 'pay the price' ourself, with our own death and eternal separation from the God Who created us. (For the wages of sin is death.) Also, until Christ's final reign, there are 5 compartments of Hell where one would basically wait until Jesus arrived during His three day stay after His death... 1. Abraham's Bosom (where the "good God-fearing people" were) 2. Tartarus-for fallen angels, before and after the great flood, bound in chains. 3. Hell-place for all wicked/evil people who wouldn't follow God's plan 4. Abyss-place for demons 5. Lake of Fire Only two people are recorded in the Bible as going to heaven in the Old Testament, Enoch and Elijah, but they were the exception to the rule: Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. 2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Which brings us back to the belief that every other Old Testament saint died and their souls went to the heart of the earth to a place of rest (Abraham's bosom), where they waited for Christ to die and go down and bring them up and take them back to heaven with him, which was technically when the New Testament began (Hebrews 9:16-17). ______________________ Hope this helps a bit. Don't forget... Please don't take my word for it. Research it yourself in His Word. That's what it's there for. If you don't have a Bible, you can look anything up on-line. (Bible.com is a neat site.) Blessings! :o)

JELPY		07-Oct-2008 03:47
************************************************************************************************************ To all: Could someone please do me a favor?! Could you go to this xian/religious website called Religious Tolerance and read this very short page (5 paragraphs) and give us your summary/analysis of it?! Hopefully neutral and unbiased!!! Link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_miss.htm JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		07-Oct-2008 03:35
************************************************************************************************************ To Linda (message: 06-Oct-2008 19:33) Either you are extremely naive, extremely stoopid or extremely deceitful!!! You present a bunch of words coming out of thin air and you dare calling that mess "tangible evidence"??? If you'd give a link to articles published in a reputable newspaper or magazine, with pictures and scientific studies of the alleged "ark" and verifiable sightings of the ark in ancient times, you might have a point, but here you're grotesque!!! It's scrambled up there in the thing that you call your brain!! Again proving that religion cripples the mind!! At least that's a valid proof!!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		07-Oct-2008 01:10
Sarah, Ialready asked that question before, but nobody ever offered an answer. Likewise there are 4 billion people not xian who never had and never will hear about him, plus billions of ther ancestors. Same thing: nobody could give any answer. If there IS another way then John 3:16 is lying and if there is NO other way then god is willfully sending them to hell and is incompetent in making them know Jesus!!! Again I got no answer, proving these sad guys can quote verses like parrots, but are totally unable to answer real, touchy and hard questions!!! .

Sarah		07-Oct-2008 00:43
Dear Me, I also had one other thought for you. You believe that the only way to get to heaven and God is through Jesus right? So what about the people who lived before Jesus, did they go to hell? I figured I would ask you since you have all of the answers.

Just Me		06-Oct-2008 20:03
It's not hard to understand why the people of Noah's day thought him crazy, the ark had to have been the largest structure of it's time.

Linda		06-Oct-2008 19:33
Did you know..................../ There are many ancient writers that have made mention of the flood and seeing the ARK . At least as far back as 200BC thaere are written records of Noah's ARK being seen on a Mountain by the name of ARARAT----EXACTLT where the Bible says it came to rest!!! In 1883 a quake struck Mt. Ararat, which caused the Turkish Government to send out a team to investigate the damage. This team stumbled upon the ARK most of which was imbedded in a glacier. Through one of the broken and exposed corners they were able to enter it for a short distance, finding the interior partitioned off into compartments about 12-15' high. Now how could a structure, which has reportedly been seen by many people end up on top of a 17,000 ft Mountain? Was it contructed there? No as it is above the tree line and far too steep to carry the massive timbers up the mountain. Timbers that were NOT from the area. Ararat is a valcanoe some thousands of miles deep. If the land mass rose as a result of volcanic action this wooden structure would have been destroyed by the molten lava.. The only other possible solution was that it was contructed elsewhere and FLOATED to its present location. Which means there had to be a flood of unimaginable magnitude and written about since back to 200 BC!!!!! Myth or TRUTH? How can you refute such tangible evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Linda		06-Oct-2008 13:53
The next time you feel like GOD can't use you, just remember... Abraham was too old, Isaac was a daydreamer , Jacob was a liar , Leah was ugly Joseph was abused , Moses had a stuttering problem , Gideon was afraid , Sampson had long hair and was a womanizer , Rahab was a prostitute , Jeremiah and Timothy were too young , David had an affair and was a murderer .Elijah was suicidal! Isaiah preached naked , Jonah ran from God, Naomi was a widow , John the Baptist ate bugs , Peter denied Christ , The Disciples fell asleep while praying , Martha worried about everything The Samaritan woman was divorced, more than once , Zaccheus was too small , Paul persecuted Christians , Timothy had an ulcer...AND Lazarus was dead!! God can use us to our full potential no matter who we are or what we have done. Besides we aren't the message, we are just the messenger. "Let your LIGHT so SHINE..." Matt 5:16 Be still and know that I am God. Psalm 46:10

Kay		06-Oct-2008 12:53
God is not anything like you envision Him to be. He created our world and universe out of LOVE, wanting to share it with us. He also gave us freewill, because He did not want to create robotic people. He is also perfection and cannot accept anything other than that in Heaven. Mankind is basically selfish; as well as self-centered,, thinking only of what they want and what is in it for me. Therefore, He created a Savior to take on the sins of mankind, through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross, giving us the opportunity once again to have the opportunity to be with Him....not against Him. God is Loving and wants the best for us, but He also expects respect. Wouldn't you, if you created a world that was supposed to be a Gift, with everything one could expect to live in peace and harmony, then everyone turned against you. Come on, wake up and see the LIGHT.

JELPY		06-Oct-2008 04:17
TO ALL: If to live a good life you have to fear a sky big brother waving a hammer stamped "hell" then I pity your lacking life and all those around you. There are tens of millions of non-theists (to you that's agnostics and atheists) around the world who live decent lives without "needing" to have some sky-cop spying on them!!! .

JELPY		06-Oct-2008 04:07
************************************************************************************************************ To Guest (message: 06-Oct-2008 01:27) Quoting you: "I'd rather live life as if there is a Heaven and hell, than to live as I want & to find out there definitely is." GUEST, I'M SORRY TO SAY: YOU'LL END UP IN HELL !!!! This is a GENUINE and LEGITIMATE, non rhetorical question: what will you do if at the Pearly Gates Yahweh himself tells you that Jesus was nothing more than a charismatic and rebellious rabbi and that his friends and followers just succeeded at fraudulently have him pass as the messiah?!!! In other words if the Jews are right and Jesus was not the messiah, YOU'LL END UP IN HELL because you're not Jewish!!!! Or what if your horridly find out that not Yahweh but Allah or the Mormon god along with Joseph Smith are there JUST READY TO SEND YOU TO HELL TOO?!!!! Or what if the Hindu gods instead just wait TO SEND YOU TO HELL?!!!!! I've asked that genuine and legitimate question repeatedly, but no-one ever even started the beginning of an answer!!! ----------WHAT ARE ALL YOU GUYS AFRAID OF?!!!!---------- JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Guest		06-Oct-2008 03:40
Why just the Ten Commandments? Why not follow all of God's commandments in the OT? Be consistent!

Guest		06-Oct-2008 02:51
I believe that the ten commandements should be a way of life, withot them look what we have, and where did they come from. God Bless..

Guest		06-Oct-2008 01:27
I'd rather live life as if there is a Heaven and hell, than to live as I want & to find out there definitely is.

Sarah		06-Oct-2008 00:24
Dear Me, Read my previous comments and you will know how I feel about the Bible. I am not going to repeat myself for a third time on that subject. As for faith and you saying that you "blindly" believe in God, you don't blindly believe you believe because of the Bible. To blindly believe in something is to believe in it because you feel it is right and you know in your heart that it is what you want for your life. Not because a book tells you it is right.

Me		06-Oct-2008 00:14
Guest 05-Oct-2008 22:42 "To "Me," the Pharisees were also certain of all things...and we see what Jesus had to say to them." ________________________________ Again, "Guest", I suggest you not try to judge or guess where people's relationship is with their Maker. You may very well have a plank sticking out of your own eye. I've said nothing to offend you or anyone else. It might be considerate of you to, at the very least, do the same. I don't have to worry about where I'll end up. I've already been told that I'm His child, and with that, a joint heir with Christ. It doesn't get any better than that! :o) Praise God!!! I pray to see you there with me on that great day. Until then, I'll be praying for you. Blessings.

Dan		05-Oct-2008 22:59
Building such a structure is an amazing accomplishement regardless of your theistic/atheistic convictions. I'll have to agree with the accusations of self-righteousness on this site; both sides are guilty. The haters like JELPY on here have convinced no one of anything, nor has JELPy been convinced. The Christians have all the answers and the Pharisees had the all the answers. The Bible I read says Jesus came to spend time with people like JELPY, not all those who recommend we leave him alone and ignore him. Jesus wasn't afraid of hard questions. Most Christians are...at least on this site. JELPY's questions aren't always insightful, but at least he or she is honest about what the Bible says and claims. Ask on JELPY, but be sure you are searching for truth and not to further your own narcissistic agenda. i agree with Augustine that "All truth is God's truth," wherever, in whatever, and in whomever it is found.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 22:54
If one considers the variable of height was not added then volume will have it a constant. In this case you would also be wrong. What is the point in this anyhow? If I have to teach you numerators and denominators this could take all night. From what is offered on the front page you are both in the ball park. Why are you attacking would be the better question. Oh I forgot� That is all you do on this board. Joseph

Guest		05-Oct-2008 22:47
Joseph, you run too quickly to absurd conclusions, and you avoid the issues. Who suggested Jesus was a liar. I merely pointed out that Jesus and Paul quoted verses out of context. My question for you, in light of that, is why it is wrong for others to do so since that is the pattern established by such great founders? Or, since Jesus and Paul didn't appeal to context when debating, why should we? On what basis do you establish "context" as an important grid for interpreting the Bible? When you do so, you make an interpretive leap which you can't support from the scriptures themselves. And here is why I agree with JELPY, for you will probably never admit such an unfounded approach.

Guest		05-Oct-2008 22:42
To "Me," the Pharisees were also certain of all things...and we see what Jesus had to say to them.

JELPY		05-Oct-2008 21:40
************************************************************************************************************ Dear "?", You're mostly correct, but I've already answered your question in my message dated 29-Sep-2008 06:39, in Note 1. And before as well. JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		05-Oct-2008 21:34
************************************************************************************************************ To tea (message: 05-Oct-2008 15:46) Quoting you: "i think it's lovely. i can't believe the original ark was 5 times that size." Are we to understand you still confuse addition and multiplication?!!!! 2x3=6, the ark described in the forged bible is S.I.X. times lager than this replica, not 5. Jeez, it' is absolutly hallucinating to see how much these believers' b-a-s-i-c logic is flawed!!!! NO WONDER YOUR BELIEFS ARE FLAWED TOO !!!! PS: and Josephine and all the others who've read your message can't count either!?! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science strictly stick with religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 20:20
Dear Tea Yes I agree this is a wondrous sight for glorifying and praising God. Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 20:14
To the one of many names who hides his name Interesting that you wish to say Jesus took the Words of his father out of context. I do know those who were teaching Gods Laws had been taking the word out of context. Jesus revealed this openly while bringing his fathers words into context. In this he brought into the light those who were distorting the meaning. The best twisting secular minds of the day wanted to catch Jesus using Gods word wrongly to have him silenced and failed. I take it you are better at interpreting today then those who understood back then? I am not saddened Jesus was tested at every turn by those who wanted him silenced. This had to transpire for Jesus to reveal and shed light on the true meaning that was already distorted for mans personal gains. I am not sure your personal reasoning�s for trying to say Jesus was a liar. I do understand why the people of the day wanted to do this, but your personal reasoning�s are unclear. This might be a question you need to ask yourself. God Bless Joseph

Me		05-Oct-2008 18:03
Guest 05-Oct-2008 03:59 "Me, you are exactly right. Jesus taught that those who think they are in should be worried. And it seems pretty clear that you think you are in...so be worried. Jesus also taught that those who you think are certainly out or most certainly in. Don't you just love Jesus." _____________________________ Guest... Yes, I absolutely love my Lord, Jesus. Isnt' He absolutely awesome?! I'm not worried, my friend. I know that I know where I'm spending my eternity, but thank you for your concern. We must make sure not to get caught up in guessing where somebody will spend their eternity. That's certainly not a Godly characteristic at all. Those of us that think that way need to walk ever so cautiously. Only Jesus knows our true hearts, as our pure relationship is with Him and our Father. If one doesn't know where one is going for sure, one's not going there. The Bible assures us we can KNOW, without any doubts. Isn't that just amazingly wonderful?! :o) (I know.) Praise God!!! :o) Have a blessed day.

tea		05-Oct-2008 15:46
i think it's lovely. i can't believe the original ark was 5 times that size.

?		05-Oct-2008 14:41
JELPY, it is clear that you are not afraid to ask the hard questions of the Bible and you are right to expect thoughtful answers from those who claim to know it the best. I'm sorry that the Christians on this site are unable (or perhaps unwilling) to respond with any significant insight or thoughtfulness. They have been great at quoting the Bible but equally terrible at interpreting it. Anyway, in all your attempts to disprove the Bible you seem to want to disprove that God exists. My question for you has more to do with your own logic. How does disproving the Bible or CHristianity prove that God does not exist? Can you prove that God does not exist? If so, please do. Just because you can explain to someone why they are wrong does not mean you are right. In all your posts you've never once approached anything resembling proof for God's inexistence.

Guest		05-Oct-2008 14:30
p.s., the previous post should read: "translation always involves interpretation..."

Guest		05-Oct-2008 14:15
Joseph, Jesus and Paul both quoted multiple verses out of context. They never once quote an entire passage chapter. How can you condemn someone else for doing the same. There is no golden rule of interpretation that says "context" is important. Jesus didn't make the rule. Paul certainly didn't. "Context" is a modern way of trying to read the Bible. If one wants to be like Jesus and Paul, it looks like he or she should go back to quoting whichever verses out of the OT or NT make their point best. That's the biblical way. BTW, the KJV translation of Rom. 1 has several problems...and several successes. That's the problem with a translation. Translation always involves involves translation, so no one is ever "just" reading the Bible.

JELPY		05-Oct-2008 07:12
************************************************************************************************************ Dear Hexenhammer (message: 03-Oct-2008 03:53), It's sooo much fun watching you hit your very own head again and again with your witchhammer (in German that's Hexenhammer). But quit your clownesque behavior illustrated and exemplified by empty and useless phrases. And instead of trying to drag me all the way down to your level, why don't you try climbing up a few hundred steps and face the real stuff: try debunking all of my affirmations: points 4.1 to 4.6 of my post dated 03-Oct-2008 02:23. And while you're at it, please answer the other following simple points as well; we'll see if you're as awful as in your said stoopid message or if you're a tiny bit better!? Or if you'll run away as fast as a chicken!?! 1) please explain god's inability to convince and make Moses a good speaker (Exodus 4:10-16) 2) please explain god's inability to beat Jacob at one to one wrestling as reported in Genesis 32:24-32. Jeez an infinitely powerful god who created billions of billions of stars in just one single day, he can't even defeat Jacob and even Moses in a man to man wrestling: Exodus 4:24-26 what a great laugh!!! 3) please explain god's inability to beat the inhabitants of the valley in the land of Judah, just because they use iron chariots!!! Read Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." A completely IMPOTENT Biblegod/Yahweh!! what a ludicrous story!!! 4) please explain why did god have to have thousands of people killed: men, women and innocent children in the promised land while he could have simply scattered them away as he did at the Tower of Babel?!! 5) please explain why did god have to kill hundreds of thousands of men, women and innocent children AND all the animals (Exodus 9:3-6): the first born of all the Egyptians (Exodus 11:5 and 12:29) while he could have simply moved the children of Israel to the promised land with a fraction of a thought?!! By the way, the ONLY reason why god tortured and killed the Egyptians was out of PRIDE!!! Read Exodus 7:5 and 9:14-16 and 10:1-2 and 11:9 and 14:4 and 14:18. What a jerk!!! 6) please explain why did god have to kill 30 million men, women and innocent children at the time of Noah while he could have simply softened their heart since he could harden the heart of Pharaoh 10 times?!! 7) or, with a fraction of a thought, god could have willed the bad guys out of existence and kept the innocent children and fetus and instantly grow them to an autonomous stage as teens or adults?!! 8) please explain why did god have to confuse the unique world language at the Tower of Babel, when scattering the leaders away on some of the thousands of islands of the seas was more than enough; all this fully knowing that since god confused the unique world language it would result in all the miserable problems of translation, errors of interpretation and misunderstanding, all resulting in endless conflicts and many extremely bloody wars and persecutions throughout history!!! - and the list goes on and on!!! 9) and please explain why these ultra simple alternate solutions are so much smarter and respectful and merciful than ANYTHING your "perfect" and "infinitely smart" god ever did in the entire bible!!! 10) In other words, and to summarize it: please explain why modern men are sooooo much better, so much more respectful and so much smarter than your "omni-max" god?!!!!! (hint: because your fake god was entirely invented by primitive, barbaric, uneducated and stoopid goat fcukerz!!!) But this my dear, you'll NEVER have the brains to understand it, nor the balls to admit it!!!!!!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science try religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 04:26
So you say I cherry picked (the whole passage) that shows showing a sin as a sin? Is this not as Jesus taught those who share to offer? How could Paul offer salvation of sin unless showing a sin as a sin? Just asking! It is the cherry pickers that silence showing a sin as a sin. They use a single verse completely out of context. I am showing they are wrong and I will use a whole passage if need be. If I put the whole Bible on this board will I still be cherry picking? Think it over next time you say I am cherry picking. Who asked Paul to spread this message? Who was Paul writing for when he started by showing a sin as a sin? He was doing as Jesus taught. He was offering for the sinner�..like us. I am so happy he was not hindering in showing a sin as a sin for then what would we get from Paul. Fluffy Bunnies? Now I can trust that Jesus taught Paul, and Paul was doing as Jesus instructed, or I can just say this is Cherry Picking and needs not be known for what was written. You wish this area not to be well known for then the real Cherry pickers will silence those who wish to show the path towards salvation. I understand you more then you think. I do not need to show the whole Bible to have the examples easy to see known. Joseph

Guest		05-Oct-2008 03:59
Me, you are exactly right. Jesus taught that those who think they are in should be worried. And it seems pretty clear that you think you are in...so be worried. Jesus also taught that those who you think are certainly out or most certainly in. Don't you just love Jesus.

Guest		05-Oct-2008 03:56
Joseph, quoting Romans is one thing, but pushing your interpretation and KJV translation is another. Let the Bible speak for itself...all of it. Don't cherry-pick passages to make a point.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 03:39
(2nd part of 2 parts) Why did I offer Romans 1 verses 1 through 32 (King James Version)? Is Jesus to be our servant? Is he to do our bidding and just become a get out of jail free card and a free ticket to sin? This is what the fluff preachers are instilling in offering such. They lower Christ to that of a Wicca/Pagan created God. Some just create new Gods on a whim like a snowy dragon for it fit their Bi-polar personality. Is this what we are doing with Jesus? Are we trying to change all he has done to meet our needs (desires) instead of accepting his love as offered? Some preachers of today think they themselves can offer the forgiveness of another. They do not teach as Jesus had instructed. Showing a sin as a sin is essential if wanting to show the path towards salvation. We are not making up the laws or passing Judgment. God created the Laws and the Judgments are already written. We can not save ourselves and can certainly not save one another. We can only show the path towards Jesus. Be very careful if doing as Paul. If you show a sin as a sin be ready to offer twice as long the path towards the salvation of forgiveness that only he (Jesus) can give. It might seem to some that I keep offering upon this site. If this be the case I am sorry for I am only trying to show what the Bible offers. The only true answers will be found in God�s inspired word already written. Get yourselves a bowl of cereal and feed your body as you feed your soul. My head hurts now peoples. I am trying so hard to do right in showing meaning, in my words offered, that I fear I am failing at the task. For the words I offer take what you find right and discard what you do not. For the words I have shown from the Bible itself discard nothing for all is of his hand. I am just a man with a Bible in my hand. My words added only represent my own heart trying to share. As a Bible reading Christian man I am required to share. I humbly accept I am flawed as are we all. God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 03:39
(1st part of 2 parts) Why did I offer Romans 1 verses 1 through 32 (King James Version)? This is an important area for many reasons. One reason is it shows us how Jesus taught the teachers to teach. In this we need to pay attention when offering others. Jesus did not waver in showing a sin as a sin. Showing acceptance of sin was never acceptable. Jesus became angered one time well known in the Bible. It was when a Temple for worshiping God was used for sin. This was showing acceptance of the sinful world in God�s name. Paul did not hesitate in showing a sin as a sin. If not accepting what is sinful how can salvation ever be found? What would Jesus find in many calling themselves Christians offering in the name of Jesus today? If it be acceptance of sin in the name of Jesus then you have become tied to the sins you offer acceptance upon and have walked away from Jesus. Yes you have lead people to sin and tainted the hearts of many. The Judgment will fall upon your heard for all you lead astray. Paul did as Jesus had taught by example many times during his days in the flesh. Paul shared this with the sinners as Jesus had so requested. We are not Paul and yet these are the examples we are to follow as Jesus taught how to spread the message to others. So you think you can do this? You have seen the fire and brimstone sermons and are ready to go out and give someone two scoops? We know there are many that call themselves Christians that do just that, but then they have not a clue as to what being a Christian is all about. It is better you stay home and get your own two scoops from a box or Raisin Bran while opening your Bible then going and listening to such preached from an alter by one who is suppose to know better. For every one soul they bring closer to God through fear they chase three more in need of the love of Jesus away. I said Jesus taught by example, but it would be better to say he showed his love. Jesus came into this world to offer love and salvation. How would such fire and brimstone serve the idea in spreading his love? Jesus is love and compassion for all who seek. The shortest verse written show how close his love is tied to our happiness and well being. The grace of God flowed in all who were willing to hear as he forgave the sinners and healed the inflicted. He offered the salvation from sin. Jesus is all about compassion forgiveness and salvation for all who long for closeness with our Heavenly Father. He showered the people with a tenderness unsurpassed. He humbled himself before man to show the level we should offer one another. Paul preached this as well. Paul taught we were no longer bound to sin for Jesus offered forgiveness of sin so we could be right with God the father almighty. I am sure you could do this and spread the knowledge we are no longer bound to the sin and how Jesus walked the earth forgiving us our transgression. You can offer he died for the sinner and not the ones who say they have not sinned. Forgiveness free for the taking. Two scoops of love and again I offer staying at home with the Bible and having two scoops of cereal. How many preachers offer as if forgiveness is automatically given? This will greatly grow a congregation, but at a great cost to the eternal soul. It will also have the Bible reading Christians walking out the doors knowing forgiveness came at great cost and is not to be squandered in rhetoric of fluffy bunny sermons.

Me		05-Oct-2008 02:59
Dear me, "You seem to be one of those people who believe that your way, your religion, are the only way to knowing God and knowing his love. Why are people so closed-minded? Don't you think that it is naive of you to think that way, to not question anything? I find it hard to believe that everyone that believes in God, no matter what religion they are or whether or not the believe in Jesus, is going to hell." Sarah, The Bible clearly states that the only way to get to the Father (God), is to go through His Son, Jesus. Those were Jesus's own words. If you don't have Jesus, you don't have God. Please study the Word so you can find this out on your own. As for being naive... I'm not. It's called faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God - the Bible. Faith is the substance of things hoped for - the evidence of things not seen. Therefore, I blindly believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and receive my teachings from it, as this is His will for all of His children. The only way into Heaven, is through Jesus Christ. That's why Jesus stated that the road is wide but the gate is narrow. Not everybody who thinks they're getting through, will be able to do so. My prayer is that you, indeed, will be one of them that gets through when it's time. Again, though... Please study these facts on your own. Don't take my word for them. All of this is in the Bible for all who are hungry enough to search it out. Blessings in His name (and His name only). Have a great night. :o)

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 00:14
Part 2 of 2 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. God Bless Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		05-Oct-2008 00:13
Part 1 of 2 Let us keep in mind this was written by Paul whom Jesus taught and sent to offer. Read this carefully for I am not above Paul in offering. I will let his words offered speak for themselves. This one little area shows a bit everything inflicting this site. I could easily take you back to Leviticus showing Gods Righteous Judgments, but some need to see it in the New Testament thinking the laws had somehow changed. Jesus never changed the Laws. He came for our salvation should we repent and turn from sin. We all fall short and Yes some are already lost as if never known. Romans 1 (King James Version) 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. 13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Angie Nixon		04-Oct-2008 18:32
I just pray that God's Agape Love visits this site today and that all will be filled to overflowing with His Love, His Peace and His Joy!!!!!!!!!!! This is the most important facts to be revealed today! HIS LOVE SHED FOR US! Please just LOVE HIM TODAY! God Bless You ALL!

Linda		04-Oct-2008 16:06
Peggy & Guest, You Go Girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah		04-Oct-2008 15:59
Dear me, You seem to be one of those people who believe that your way, your religion, are the only way to knowing God and knowing his love. Why are people so closed-minded? Don't you think that it is naive of you to think that way, to not question anything? I find it hard to believe that everyone that believes in God, no matter what religion they are or whether or not the believe in Jesus, is going to hell.

Guest		04-Oct-2008 14:02
Peggy, thanks for your interpretation of all things prophetic. Even Jesus thought he was living in the last times...and Paul, too. So you are on good ground to think the end is near...you are also on good ground to be wrong.

Peggy		04-Oct-2008 06:19
PS. The Old Testament tells about wars and falling of empires, prophecies that have been fulfilled and many other things that are documented in history books and writingts other that the Bible.

Guest		04-Oct-2008 06:14
Jelpy I don't have any trouble understanding where you're coming from. If I was looking at all of what you say thru your eyes...I'd think the same probably. There is just something wrong with your eyes. (I could quote scripture here...but you don't believe them) As for your comments about GOD on Moses and Aaron...why are you using a book that you don't believe in to argue a point? God has answered all of those questions...and the answers are in the BOOK that you say is false. I would have to use the same book to prove that you don't know what you're talking about...but what's the point? I won't argue about GOD, Jelpy..because I know HE does exist. HE answers prayers too...you can't just 'wrap it all up' and say HE doesn't...you're looking at the wrong people. As for your 10 questions...I'm not the prophet...you are...answer the same about me. Did you see the sun when you got up today??...that's GOD. Do you see the stars at night?...that's my GOD...OH...by the way...did you know that the wind does not exist?. No one has ever seen it...oops..non existent. Unless, of course, there is another way of proving it?? hmmm You're right on your quote about religion, however. I don't believe in any religion...there are all kinds of them. I was raised a 'religion'...and without going into detail...it was almost disasterous! But I'm so thankful that someone cared enough to tell me about (what I have FAITH enough to believe) the TRUTH? And that is JESUS CHRIST and what HE has done for me. I accepted HIM as my SAVIOR and now I'm a CHRISTIAN....not a religion. You can call it whatever you want...call me names...it's not going to bother me. I apologize for so-called Christians for causing so many (like yourself) to hate them. People can carry anything to extreme...anything. I'm glad that I found this site...I'm glad that you respond. There were many like you in the bible itself...and GOD healed them and made believers out of them through HIS love. Do you believe history?...well the bible is HIStory. But please, don't use it to debate something you don't even believe exists...ok? The only proof that there is no GOD is that you simply don't believe..so it's a matter of choice...right? I choose TO believe...you choose NOT to believe. Isn't this a wonderful country that we live in?...we still have the freedom to choose...and to have opinions. We can just 'agree to disagree'..I'm not smart like you...you are a very intelligent person...perhaps too smart actually. Come off of it a little and think sensibly...what hope do you have? What are you putting YOUR trust in? I have a KNOW so faith...you have no so faith in nothing...yet I think you really DO believe in HIM.

Peggy		04-Oct-2008 06:09
I would just like to offer proof to those who do not believe the Bible is true. First let me say that everything happening with Israel and every country who hates it is written about in many books of the Bible. Israel is God's chosen people and He said " I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel"... That is why that tiny country survives surrounded by all those who would love to demolish it. Everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen has been prophecied in the Bible. Here is one simple proof that Bible prophecy is true. I can give you mkany more! Revelations (the last book of the Bible) chapter 11, verses 8 & 9 are about two witnesses. It says that they will be killed and that all nations shall see their dead bodies lying in the street for three and a half days. Now this was written by John in the year 96 A.D. Folks (believers) have wondered all these many years how that could be. We only found the answer when satellite television came into being in the past 40 or so years, when everything that happens in the world can be seen by the whole world. All the events happening now with the Middle East conflicts have been predicted in the Bible. The One world government, currency, etc. is not far off. The Mark of the beast, 666 propehcied nearly 2000 years can now be understood with the modern technology of chips implanted in a person. Everything happening you can find in the Bible!Q!

JELPY		04-Oct-2008 02:15
************************************************************************************************************ To Guest (message: 03-Oct-2008 23:09) Quoting you: "Jelpy I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy. Do you know why? Because he/she doesn't exist...therefore...it doesn't bother me, and I'm not mad at her/him for not existing. If you REALLY believe that GOD doesn't exist...why are you so angry at HIM?" Since you have trouble understanding this, then I'll help you: 1) I'm not mad at god since I know it doesn't exist!!!! 2) HOWEVER I'm mad at the insane bible authors and/or tamperers and forgerers who wrote so many crazy stuff and stamped the words "god" and "inerrant" on this mess!! 3) and I'm mad that people who think, hope or pretend to be averagely smart would buy that forged crap!! They say a sucker is born every minute, welcome you suckers!!!!! 4) now concerning your obviously stoopid example of the Tooth Fairy: -- parents tell their children about the Tooth Fairy; however when they grow up none still believe in it. Same thing with Santa. However soooo many weak-minded and cripple-minded adults still believe in a form of god-myth despite all proofs of its non-existence!! -- the Tooth Fairy never ever made people go insane and cripple their mind and close it to the truth: the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist, neither does god, same myth!!! -- NO adult ever seriously debated about the Tooth Fairy's existence!! -- and the worst: the Tooth Fairy never ever made people go insane and kill other people for not believing in it or for believing in different forms of it!!!! The list is much longer but I can hope you get the point. And if like you pretend your non-existing god answers prayers how come he NEVER EVER ANSWERED THE BILLIONS OF THEM AS IN MY DEMONSTRATIONS ABOUT NATURAL DISASTERS AND LOURDES' VISITORS?!!!! Again nobody here had the brains and balls to answer this and the accompanying facts in my messages dated 03-Oct-2008 02:23 AND 29-Sep-2008 06:39. WHAT ARE ALL YOU GUYS AFRAID OF???!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" FACT:-----"I you can't understand science try religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

JELPY		04-Oct-2008 01:33
A quick google for "child sacrifice in bible" returns very close to five million six hundred thousand pages!!!!!!! Eloquent isn't it?!!! .

JELPY		04-Oct-2008 01:24
************************************************************************************************************ To Linda (message: 03-Oct-2008 16:49) Quoting you: "The Bible is a History book and the geneology of Christ and His people. Written by man but INSPIRED BY THE HAND OF GOD and therefore, PERFECT.. " Men are imperfect in ALL THEIR WAYS, so how can you pretend any of their writing could be perfect?!!! Inspired by god or not doesn't change anything!!! It's amazing to see that NONE of you guys EVER answer the touchy questions?! Is it because they ring a bell of truth and you don't even dare to "touch" them for fear you would see it and get free from superstitions?!!! Back to the frauds in the bible: would you disagree with the following FACTS : 1) we have NO original document written at the time the alleged events supposedly took place: both OT and NT!! 2) most of the oldest writings of the new testament we have come with texts differing from one copy to the other : some contain added texts, some contain deleted texts and some modified texts. 3) ALL the NT books were written many generations after the alleged facts 4) neither Mark nor Luke ever met Jesus as they were Paul's travel companions, yet they put words in Jesus' mouth, how dishonest!! 5) NONE of the 4 gospels are identifiable from the texts themselves as being from the alleged authors 6) NONE of the many (42) historians living in and around Galilee during the 1st half of the 1st century write any single believable word about supposedly the most important being of the whole universe who allegedly preached and performed miracles openly and went into every city and village in Galilee to preach in synagogues!!! The only tiny accounts by 2 historians we have are proved forgeries!! One is by Josephus Flavius who was born a full decade after Jesus alleged death, meaning he didn't write anything at least a full generation after said facts were over!! His tiny paragraph is totally out of place in his writings, and NO other historian mention it but after the time of Eusebius many centuries later; Eusebius is a recognized forgerer amongst bible scholars!!! SO HOW COULD ANYONE PRETEND THE BIBLE TO BE PERFECT WITH SO MUCH TAMPERING AND FORGERIES PLAGUING MOST OF ITS BOOKS?!!! This is not the least bit serious folks!!! You and your recognized forged bible have simply NO credibility whatsoever!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" -----FACT:-----"I you can't understand science try religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Me		04-Oct-2008 01:01
"As I recall, it was the God of Abraham who first called for a child-sacrifice. Oh, but wait...God was only joking about that." ...Hardly... He was testing Abraham's faith. Abe passed and the son of Abe was spared as a consequence. The Bible is not "perfect", however it was inspired by God for us to use to feed on, and to grow with. Love our neighbors, and keep turning the other cheek. Keep praying for the lost ones. Another poster said something refering to God loving all of us as His creation. That's not necessarily true. God WANTS to love all of us, but we have to be His children first. We're not in the family of God until we ask Him to come into our hearts and forgive us of all our wrong-doing, accepting Jesus Christ, His Son, as our Lord and Saviour. If we don't do that, we're merely just God's creation - not His children. He gave us all free will. If we don't choose His way, we're heading straight to hell. To the other poster (Sarah) who said that there are many religions and faiths and gods out there... Sorry but you're wrong. Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. Jesus is the only way to get to the Father. For those that are in the Family of God, we know this. For those that don't know this as truth, you really need to re-evaluate your situation. Jesus also said that the path is very wide but the gate is very narrow. People will try to get through the gates and He will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you." Of course He knows about our birth and our lives. What He means is that He never knew our spirit - that we're not saved and we're not getting through the gate. Please, please, all of you... Love each other and keep studying the Word. It is God's will that we meditate on it day and night. There is no point in argueing our beliefs with unbelievers. We can merely teach (which has been done on this site abundantly) and love unconditionally. That doesn't mean we have to stay in contact with them, pleading our case. The seeds have been planted. Keep praying and God will find a way into their hearts. It'll then be up to them to receive Him or not. God bless you all! I can't wait to see you on the other side! :o)

Joseph (Just a father of two)		04-Oct-2008 00:46
Dear Before you were born Thank you for adding to this my friend. The areas are so many and yet so easily overlooked. Makes one wonder what ever happened to just opening the Bible and turning a few pages�. Err with reading them that is.. An interesting area to start would be as was spoken by an angel to a barren woman. He was offering she was to give birth to a child that would deliver Israel out of the hands of the Philistines. This is found three times written in Judges 13. I will show it just once for it can be read by all for better understanding. """Judges 13:3 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. (4) Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing: (5) For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. """ We can see that God commanded this child not be tainted in the womb for he had given the spirit of a Nasserite that would be known as Samson inside. The spirit and the flesh were not to be tainted from conception till birth. Why was this commanded if not showing Gods will and when life begins? God Bless the Children Joseph

Before you were born...		03-Oct-2008 23:50
Joseph, God evidently did a lot before we were born according to Romans 8-9...like predestine some for destruction and others for life. God is loving...to some. Election of some for no reason is the way the God of the Bible does things...so apparently most of the world was born destined for hell.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 23:09
Jelpy I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy. Do you know why? Because he/she doesn't exist...therefore...it doesn't bother me, and I'm not mad at her/him for not existing. If you REALLY believe that GOD doesn't exist...why are you so angry at HIM? HE LOVES YOU. My heart goes out to you...I will be praying for your salvation...and when the LORD finds you....will you let me know? Oh if you only knew the peace that HE can give. AND...HE does answer prayer...you'll see...

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 22:37
Thank you for offering from Psalms. Psalms is so beautifully written and filled with words written from the repenting heart. Psalms 139 is one of my favorites. It reminds me of how precious we are all held dear. Psalms 139 shows we are life long before we are born. Before our bones have even formed God has been with us. So many ask �When does life begin� and I can offer �Psalms 139, let us open the Bible and read this together.� God Bless Joseph

Guest		03-Oct-2008 22:00
I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO JUMP IN ON THESE COMMENTS. BUT ONE THING I WILL COMMENT ABOUT IS THAT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT GOD REPENTED THAT HE MADE MAN. MAN HAD BECOME SO WICKED IN THE THINGS THEY WERE DOING. JUST LIKE HEAVEN AND HELL. ALTHOUGH THEY ARE REAL. GOD HAS PROVIDED US A WAY TO ESCAPE HIS JUDGEMENT. GOD GAVE EVERYONE THE RIGHT OF CHOICE. SO IF YOU BELIEVE THEN ACCEPT CHRIST, THE ONE WHO TOOK THE JUDGEMENT FOR US OR BEAR IT YOURSELF. SO IN RELATION TO THE FLOOD. THE ARK WASN'T BUILT IN A MONTH. THE PEOPLE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO REPENT OF THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE DOING AND THE ARK IS A TYPE OF CHRIST PROVIDING A WAY TO ESCAPE GOD'S WRATH. SO REGARDLESS OF WHO PERISHED GOD ALLOWED THE PEOPLE TO MAKE A CHOICE AND THEY COULD HAVE BEEN ON THE ARK ALSO. THEY SIMPLY CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE NOAH. REMEMBER IT HAD NOT RAINED BEFORE.SO IT EVEN TOOK FAITH TO BELIEVE WHAT NOAH SAID WAS ON THE HORIZON. NOT TO SEEM LIKE A NO IT ALL BUT THE STORY OF NOAH CONTAINED "TYPES". THE ARK BEING A TYPE OF CHRIST. THE ARK HAD ONE WAY IN, CHRIST THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER, THE ARK HAD THREE LEVELS, THE TRINITY, THE NUMBER 7 AS IT REGARDED THE ANIMALS, ECT. SO I HOPE THIS WAS HELPFUL TO SOMEONE.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 21:43
Wow... an unbelievable amount of bickering here. And all this in front of unbelievers!! "My heart says of You, 'Seek His face.' Your face, LORD, I will seek!"

Linda		03-Oct-2008 18:37
Joseph, I will try to contact you later.

Linda		03-Oct-2008 18:33
To everyone, It was not my intention to come across as a sinless know-it-all. My only intent was to hopefully clear up the scriptures for some who question it or are misled. The gift of discernment is not given to all. I do not consider the scriptures or Bible for that matter as multiple choice where I can pick and choose which ones I want to believe in. For Guest: I am well aware of my imperfection and do not pretend otherwise. As for abortion, and this is my own opinion, I do not see it as being used to �save babies from a hard life� but seems to me to be used more as a form of contraception. The scriptures state; �Do not get involved in arguing over unanswerable questions and controversial theological ideas; �for this kind of thing isn�t worthwhile; it only does harm�. My apologies to anyone who thought otherwise.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 18:18
Dear Sarah and Linda Can I have both of you contact me at the_trembling_man@yahoo.com

Guest		03-Oct-2008 18:06
Amen. The Word became flesh and lived among us. Jesus is the Word of God.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 18:04
I only have one thing to say, as its mentioned in the Bible "ONLY A FOOL WILL ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD". Be careful not to be the FOOL

Bible Worship?		03-Oct-2008 17:47
Be careful that you don't worship the Bible or elevate it to divine status. God alone is perfect and is to be worshipped.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 17:43
You know what they say about assuming... No, thanks. I'll stick to the biblical description of "inspired" and all the ambiguity that carries. You stick to your own interpretation and let others have their own.

Linda		03-Oct-2008 17:38
Dear Guest, "Perfect" is not a Biblical description? I found at leat 78 verses using the word perfect or perfection etc. Christ is described as "Perfect" and therfore one can assume that the Bible, God inspired, is also "perfect".

Guest		03-Oct-2008 17:29
God "spared" them by drowning them? That's a good one! Abortion also "spares" children from a hard life. There you go. I love the logic that many Christians use and discard at their own convenience. There is no indication that anyone in the first eleven chapters of Genesis was engaging in child-sacrifice. As I recall, it was the God of Abraham who first called for a child-sacrifice. Oh, but wait...God was only joking about that.

Dee		03-Oct-2008 17:28
I ventured onto this site to check out the ark photos- they are amazing. After reading some of the posts, I felt moved to write to Jelpy. Hopefully, you're still here. You obviously have a lot of passion about this issue and have created quite the stir. I did not read all of your emails in detail, however, I wanted to say I can definitely relate to much of what you're saying- There is much pain and anger in your postings, however, underneath it all, your soul seems to be screaming out for what is REAL. That's not a bad spot to be in (that is very real). For me, I don't want to do church just because people tell you should - or don't give me bible verses when at the depth of our souls, we all struggle with your same questions. The word that came to mind when I read your posting was "tormented". It must be painful after you've dedicated so much time and energy to serving God (missionary/seminary) and now, not trust any of it. If you don't mind me asking, what happened along the way?? The Church hasn't always done a great job at representing Christ love. Unfortunately, none of us can truly answer your questions- that's between you and God- He is the only one who truly understands the depths of your cries and waits for you to come back home. He never said bad things won't happen here- look at the bible- its filled with dysfunction and so much is a mystery- the one thing that glues it all together is LOVE. Only He can transform our hearts- and not always the we expect. No matter what you decide- wishing you peace of mind and heart today.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 17:18
Does the awe about the dead children and babies positively or negatively incline you to Jesus? I think it is amazing that God was so patient with wicked people in Noah's day, and is still patient with wicked people now. Psalm 51 describes David's confidence that he will see his dead infant in heaven. God spared those children from a society that raised them to sacrifice their own children on the altars of their gods.

Not so fast...		03-Oct-2008 17:09
When I was child I asked my Sunday School teacher what it would have been like to see numerous floating dead infants and babies. I wasn't in awe of the ark as much as the death of innocent babies and children. No one wanted to talk about that. I'm still a Christian, but I rarely encounter Christians who argue about such things to ask the hard questions.

Guest		03-Oct-2008 17:02
Linda, your use of the word "perfect" to the describe the Bible is not even a biblical description. The Bible is not a perfect guide for science or history. Its cosmology is incorrect. I/II Kings doesn't agree historically with I/IIChronicles. The gospels tell very different versions of Jesus' ministry. However, the Bible was not written as a guide to science and history. It is a record of God's redemption of humanity, which culminates in the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. I would wager that you wear lipstick and nice clothes. You probably still have all the parts of your body that have in some way offended you in the past. In all likelihood you, too, take parts of the Bible and "explain" aways others. Take out the plank, Linda, before trying to work on Linda's speck.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 17:00
Dear Karen and Leigh My little girl teaches Sunday school. Could you imagine how this would bring the little children a better understanding? I am serious when I offer they would all be wide eyed and in awe. All children love hearing about Noah�s family and the animals being saved but like is offered this brings the story to life unlike any tiny drawing of a boat overflowing with animals. Joseph

Linda		03-Oct-2008 16:49
Sarah, The Bible is a History book and the geneology of Christ and His people. Written by man but INSPIRED BY THE HAND OF GOD and therefore, PERFECT.. You cannot just pick and choose which verse or commandment to believe.

Leigh Dvarishkis		03-Oct-2008 16:48
Absolutely fantastic. I am a very visual person and sometimes reading and not seeing is hard for me to comprehend. This is amazing. This type of project, commitment, access to resources and finished product is God's work.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 16:37
Linda, Hammer, and �Sorry I am late� along with others. I appreciate the understanding of the scripture and seeing it used to call an apple and apple and not just a piece of fruit. I wanted to be able to show this, as Jesus had taught, using the term Venomous Viper correctly, but you are both more in line with the truth in what the perp is doing. Yes I would then just be calling the person a piece of fruit while the two of you are getting to the core of the apple. This perp is not just twisting the word for a few personal gains. Joseph

KAREN RASK		03-Oct-2008 16:12
I AM SO HAPPY , SOME ONE FINALLY BUILT A SCALE REPLICA OF NOAH'S ARK , I HAVE ALL WAY'S WONDERED WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE , GOD BLESS, YOU AND I HOPE I CAN SEE IT SOME DAY IN REAL LIFE , YOUR SISTER IN CHRIST ! KAREN RASK

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 16:08
Who ever said God does not have a sense of humor? Did you ever watch your coffee maker waiting for a cup freshly brewed? People are right I swear it took an hour. Also why is it the phone never rings all day but if I try to use the bathroom� As long as we are on the ironic realities of life why if I leave for work early the traffic flows like the wind, but if I am running late traffic is a snail and the lights are all red? Here is the big one. How the heck can I always wind up with twenty socks and not a single partner? I hate this the most. My children say they are out of socks when I had washed them two days ago. When I bring it up they say they only have one of each kind. I look and sure enough. They are right and the partners are seldom to be seen again. Do not even offer the washer machine eats them. Heck I pulled mine apart and removed the drum to check. Nothing and a sock could never go through the pump. One day of disassembling my washer and five days later it was finally fixed. I am not going to do that ever again. LoL Some days you just gota wonder God Bless The Trembling Man

Linda		03-Oct-2008 14:10
Jelpy by his own admission, was a seminary student and missionary, so he knew Christ or at least knew OF Christ before turning his back on him. And that I believe is grieving the Holy Spirit and a FATAL sin. "If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior AFTER KNOWING THE TRUTH OF FORGIVENESS, this sin is not covered by Christ's death: there is no way to get rid of it. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible punishment of God's awful anger......" Heb: 10 26

CJN		03-Oct-2008 13:50
Someone posted that God was laughing at Jelpy. God would never laugh at anyone. He's a bit beyond that! He is patient and loving and we came from his presence and will return there. We're here to learn to choose the right. Even those who have made mistakes are loved but will have consequences.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 07:13
Wow when the hammer falls it hits the nail on the head. Nicely placed Hammer. ;-) Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		03-Oct-2008 07:08
Sarah I will say that this �particular branch� should not be tied to those who persecuted Christians no more then a true Christian can be tied to the radicals who burned Pagans at the stake. On this I am sure we both agree and the rest is not worth getting into. Yes I was writing on what I see as wrong and I am sure you could do the same. Common ground we both have in knowing this is unworthy of our time and hurts both of us and many more at the same time. The way I see your reply you have already said this and I agree. I will no longer refer to the individual who is perping on this site as Wicca nor will I say all Pagan types can be classified blatantly. I am sorry and I will endeavor to be more considerate and tolerant. I can not offer my agreement, but this was not sought. Only to take back what you felt was an attack upon yourself as a Christo-Pagan. Again I offer my apologies. Joseph

Hexenhammer		03-Oct-2008 03:53
: I have been following this post for a while and after reading Jelpy�s latest screed I have to believe that �Sorry I�m Late� has said at best, when he observed that Jelpy�s anger, (as well as his boring, over the top rhetoric I daresay) has revealed his weakness. He wants people to take him seriously. He thrives on this stuff� I envision him as some sort of European, (Swiss?) TechnoGamerGeek who probably spends far too much time on forums with people who think exactly like him. Now, he finds himself �out numbered� and has to keep coming up with more and more blasphemous (yet dreadfully repetitive!!) postings to try to remain relevant. Leave him alone. I�m sure he is used to it� There may have been hope for this guy once, but unless he allows the Holy Spirit into his heart, he can never change. Our words will not do it with this one. Let all Believers remember the words of Our Lord as found in -Mark 3:29� �But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: � Unless this guy truly repents, he is toast!

JELPY		03-Oct-2008 02:23
************************************************************************************************************ TO ALL: Time is more than up for my challenge that NONE OF YOU ever had the BALLS nor the BRAINS to take!!! Well I'm sooooo sorry for you poor lads n gals that you don't understand nothing from nothing: 1) I DON'T need any proof that you have NO personal relationship with your non-existing god-buddy!!! I just wanted to hear/read how far down underneath you'd all go to try to justify your exceeding and blatant FAILURE and FRAUD!!! I ab-so-lute-ly don't need any proof as YOU YOURSELVES have already proved it EACH and EVERY time you've written anything here!! 2) Every time you go the mostly lengthy excuses route you plainly show your total ignorance of anything about me that no "all-knowing" friend would let you ignorant of; because every time you make yourselves fools for ignoring this; and you pass your non-existing god for a fool too, thus proving he doesn't exist. 3) I've had none of the miseries all you fools insist I MUST have had to be bitter against your non-existing god. Again this make you pass as ignorant fools, let down by your non-existing god, and guess why?!!!!! (hint: because he doesn't exist!!) 4) I've successfully proved so far to anybody with an open mind (that means NONE of you cripple-minded believers!!!) that: --4.1) PRAYERS DON'T WORK: A) with many billions of prayers offered very regularly to all the known gods with living followers: biblegod/jesus/yahweh, allah, hindu gods, etc. NONE of the many dozen of natural disasters were ever stopped by them!!! B) of an estimated 700 million visits to Lourdes, the 2nd most visited pilgrimage site of xianity (that's not counting those visitors of the other places) NONE (but a paltry, a measly grand total of 65 cases!!) of the poor souls affected by physical, mental, moral and/or emotional ailments were EVER HEALED!!! TOTAL FAILURE!! And guess why?!!! Because GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!!!! --4.2) FAITH IS ABSOLUTELY UNRELIABLE: each faith pretend to be correct and that the others are wrong; there is absolutely no way to sort one from another; "god" calls thousands of people to all of those different, contradictory faith!! Thus proving NO GOD are behind any one faith!!!! --4.3) NONE OF THE EXISTING FAITH ARE TRUE: if one single faith was true, it would IRRESISTIBLY attract EVERYBODY as ONLY the god related to that faith would bring relief, daily support on personal and professional levels, healing and miracles; ALL of the other faiths/gods, being wrong, would bring NOTHING to NO-ONE!!! --4.4) THE HOLY SPIRIT DOESN'T EXIST: he's supposed to teach the truth to earnest seekers of god, therefore since all the world believes in dozens if not hundreds of mutually rejecting faith he doesn't do his job AT ALL: guess why?!! Because the holy spirit doesn't exist either!! And don't give me that Matthew 12:31-32 crap, you can't use a book to prove that same book is true: this is a circular FALLACY!! (lookup the definition if you need to) --4.5) JESUS CHRIST (=THE MESSIAH) NEVER EXISTED: he HAD to be a descendant of David according to the Jewish texts (old testament or tanakh) however with a virgin conception, he's toast right there!!!! Also there are dozens of other proofs as found here: http://tinyurl.com/og58c AND HERE: http://tinyurl.com/6aefaa --4.6) biblegod (and any god) doesn't exist or is totally absent (which is EXACTLY the same for us!!) as he never actually communicated with us since the bible is forged and a fraud. And none of the other faith and religious books are correct. Cf. the above points 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3. Now let's hear your insane, moronic and grotesque excuses!!!!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" ----------"I you don't understand science try religion!!!"---------- ************************************************************************************************************* .

Sarah		03-Oct-2008 02:07
Sorry for the many re-posts of my last respnses. Again the Bible has been translated into many different languages and was written by many different people. When a person reads the Bible they pertain it to their life and how it works for them. Everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible. The Bible was written by men, men are not perfect which means the Bible is not perfect, how does anyone know what these men meant when they were writing the Bible. And by the way Joseph, Pagans do not believe in the devil, therefore wiccans (who are under the umbrella of paganism are pagans) do not worship the devil. I am also not the Sarah that you are thinking of because I am a Christo-pagan. I have never been Wiccan, however, I have associated with them. For those of you who don't know what a Christo-pagan is, it is someone who is a Christian but doesn't necessarily believe in everything they are told about Christianity. All I was trying to say from the beginning is that not one person knows everything aobut the Bible, Jesus, religion, faith, or anything of that nature so maybe everyone on here should quit being so closed-minded. The reason I became a Pagan is because I started to question things, I know in religion that is not a good thing, because when people start to question things, other people have to come up with answers that they can't answer, or they give you an answer that just goes in circles.

Linda		02-Oct-2008 23:46
Jelpy, With your intellectually closed mind you might want to look up "Theomatics" @ www.theomatics.com/theomatics/home. Also research "Scientific Approach to Biblical Mysteries" written by NUCLEAR SCIENTIST "Robert W. Faid. He decided to research the stories found in the Bible to prove them wrong and the result of his investigation proves that science does not contradict the Bible, but actually SUPPORTS it!!!!

Sorry I'm late!		02-Oct-2008 23:19
Jelpy! You'd better rethink how you want God to reveal himself to you...you WILL get what you ask for, but not the way you want it! With your mouthy arrogance and the knowledge you have that is spewing from your mind on to your keyboard as spiteful hatred, your proof will come with a crushing, annihilating blow and you will be broken! God is laughing at you and has known your fate and others like you from the beginning! I cringe at the thought of what is waiting for you in hell! The devil is licking his chops and will devour you and there is no second chance. Whatever is tormenting you now, HA! You have no idea what awaits, what is watching you and biding it's time...I think you do believe! You must have a horrible, guilt ridden past that haunts you and you're angry at God for not delivering you from your torments or perhaps your prayers for a dying loved one, molested as a child, abused as a child, alcoholism, domestic violence, divorce, getting warmer or am I red hot? But none of that ever happened to you, right? A person like you would lie regardless. Your anger has revealed your weakness! Can you feel the flames of hell lapping at your feet already? Humble yourself! You're not challenging people for proof by asking stupid questions that your closest friend probably couldn't even answer, your challenging God to smite you! Don't worry, it's coming....... I promise!

Sorry I'm late!		02-Oct-2008 23:15
Jelpy! You'd better rethink how you want God to reveal himself to you...you WILL get what you ask for, but not the way you want it! With your mouthy arrogance and the knowledge you have that is spewing from your mind on to your keyboard as spiteful hatred, your proof will come with a crushing, annihilating blow and you will be broken! God is laughing at you and has known your fate and others like you from the beginning! I cringe at the thought of what is waiting for you in hell! The devil is licking his chops and will devour you and there is no second chance. Whatever is tormenting you now, HA! You have no idea what awaits, what is watching you and biding it's time...I think you do believe! You must have a horrible, guilt ridden past that haunts you and you're angry at God for not delivering you from your torments or perhaps your prayers for a dying loved one, molested as a child, abused as a child, alcoholism, domestic violence, divorce, getting warmer or am I red hot? But none of that ever happened to you, right? A person like you would lie regardless. Your anger has revealed your weakness! Can you feel the flames of hell lapping at your feet already? Humble yourself! You're not challenging people for proof by asking stupid questions that your closest friend probably couldn't even answer, your challenging God to smite you! Don't worry, it's coming....... I promise!

Linda		02-Oct-2008 22:32
God Bless You Joseph!!! I applaud you for correcting for that is what we should do, in loves name. It is obvious that you are well versed. I agree w/ your statement: "This site would become a snare of its own if I stay here to long." I feel that Jelpy is trying to snare us into reacting when even Jesus' response to Satan was SILENCE. Correct me if I am wrong. Jelpy by his own admission, was a seminary student and missionary, so he knew Christ or at least knew OF Christ before turning his back on him. And that I believe is grieving the Holy Spirit and a FATAL sin. So sad, so sad! But I will not give him the satisfaction of making me angry with his words, only PITY!

Guest		02-Oct-2008 21:51
After reading Jelpy's comments, I can see he's an educated person, searching for something! I get a feeling that he knows God is there, but he's angry with Him (hence, the name calling) for not jumping thru hoops to prove His existence. God will not be made a fool by a fools request! "Do not cast your pearls (of knowledge) in front of swine". They will only be trampled into the ground. It's obvious that the "veil" has not been lifted from his eyes. It may never be. God is the potter and we are the clay. It is up to the creator to decide which "clay pots" He chooses to keep for His own and which are meant for destruction. God gives us free will and will not force anyone to believe, even by letting us live in this world like He doesn't exist. That is the only fair way to let people choose on their own. The proof is there, ALL OF IT! The only reason people want to call on science to prove everything is to be able to call themselves gods and not be accountable for their own actions. Even satan and his legions know God is there! Just because we can't see the air doesn't mean it's not there (and you can't live without it)! When someone decides to let God in and have that "veil" removed, the most amazing things start to happen and you begin to see and understand them in a way that can't be explained, but sadly so many will never get to experience that. They will go thru this life sad, angry, babbling their torments trying to convince the masses to join them in their misery-remember, it loves and wants your company and that is how satan uses them. They think they're in control, but are really being poked, prodded and used by the enemy they will someday be eternally bound to.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		02-Oct-2008 21:51
Dear Linda You are offering from the Bible and IF I say IF you were offering out of context would it then not be my responsibility to put it back into the context of what the meaning was given by Jesus? I was not referring to you Linda, but a person that offered completely wrongly using the name Guest. My responses to those offering wrongly will diminish for it happens all the time on this board. I have a message to offer others else ware. This site would become a snare of its own if I stay here to long. This is why they post as they do on this site. They want to stop others from spreading God�s love and want to argue from blackened hearts. Guest could have been the same one offering Wicca as good who could also be the same one offering for Jesus to do carnival games. Yes all the bad being perped on this site could be at the hands of only one. ((((((I love what, and how, you are offering Linda)))))). God Bless Joseph

Linda		02-Oct-2008 21:36
Joseph, My one-liners were not taken out of context but DIRECTLY from the Bible.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		02-Oct-2008 20:39
Why do so many take the words of the Bible out of context, snipping it down to one liners, for making a point? I will not dwell on the rhetoric of the secular offered nor will I give a lengthy explanation. Neither nor will serve reason when those that HAVE read the Bible will grasp right away and those who follow the concept of coined phrases will fight this understanding. Let he who is without sin. Such an important message is shown right here that the Devil fights extra hard to distort its meaning. Jesus always showed a sin as a sin and never wavered. He had his chosen showing a sin as a sin for if not accepting one is breaking his fathers laws how could his message of the woman to be stoned have meaning? Just by the poster using the words out of context, as most seem to accept today, it not only diminishes the importance of what Jesus was conveying, but actually destroys the meaning twisting it against helping one another find salvation. Jesus was showing that even a woman to be stoned (forgiven by himself) is no longer bound to the sin and acceptable. The men with the stones were with many sins and had not been forgiven. The message is crystal clear when following Jesus during his time in the flesh. He was scoffed for associating with the sinners. Anyone who has read the Bible knows this is not at all true. Jesus stood against the sinners and walked with the forgiven. It did not even matter the magnitude of the sin the person had committed for once forgiven all sins are considered the same. Forgiven! We are all sinners� people. Jesus walked with the sinners (as they were called) for he had forgiven them of their sins. I already know someone will offer �That�s right! A sin is a sin is a sin all sins are sin� Are all sins then to be considered the same? Absolutely not for Leviticus makes this very clear. Jesus made it clear he did not change one letter of his father�s laws. He came to offer forgiveness for all. Clumping all sins as the same not only goes against what the Bible offers it diminishes the importance of what was meant when looking at the woman about to be stoned. Jesus picked the obvious sinners and stood by the woman�s side once he had forgiven her of her sins. Not one was above her for regardless the size of their own sins they had not been forgiven. Let the Bible speak to your heart and not just become words for the mind. I am sorry for those who will not open their Bible and instead offer out of context from the minds. Try showing what the Bible truly offers instead of offering what you want the Bible to say. To the person who offered the words on the Bible out of context. Please do not feel I am picking on you for this. It is for you that I am offering this response. I realize your intentions were not ill hearted and I just need you to see the glorious message in what is so often diminished when taking words out of context. God Bless Joseph AKA The Trembling Man at: //groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/

MARY		02-Oct-2008 20:35
OUT STANDING

Jerusalem Blade		02-Oct-2008 20:08
Jelpy, Jesus said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas..." (Matthew 12:39). When He said, "If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it" (John 14:14), the qualifying phrase is "in my name", which means "according to My will and purpose." As it is not His will show you or anyone a sign (as if He were a magician performing tricks on demand!), your tests are disqualified. He has spoken, and His word is sufficient proof of His reality to all who trust Him.

LOU CIFER		02-Oct-2008 19:56
Linda, I know thee for thou art on my list!! The list of the souls who belong to me!! HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!

Guest		02-Oct-2008 19:29
After reading Jelpy's comments, I can see he's an educated person, searching for something! I get a feeling that he knows God is there, but he's angry with Him (hence, the name calling) for not jumping thru hoops to prove His existence. God will not be made a fool by a fools request! "Do not cast your pearls (of knowledge) in front of swine". They will only be trampled into the ground. It's obvious that the "veil" has not been lifted from his eyes. It may never be. God is the potter and we are the clay. It is up to the creator to decide which "clay pots" He chooses to keep for His own and which are meant for destruction. God gives us free will and will not force anyone to believe, even by letting us live in this world like He doesn't exist. That is the only fair way to let people choose on their own. The proof is there, ALL OF IT! The only reason people want to call on science to prove everything is to be able to call themselves gods and not be accountable for their own actions. Even satan and his legions know God is there! Just because we can't see the air doesn't mean it's not there (and you can't live without it)! When someone decides to let God in and have that "veil" removed, the most amazing things start to happen and you begin to see and understand them in a way that can't be explained, but sadly so many will never get to experience that. They will go thru this life sad, angry, babbling their torments trying to convince the masses to join them in their misery-remember, it loves and wants your company and that is how satan uses them. They think they're in control, but are really being poked, prodded and used by the enemy they will someday be eternally bound to.

Linda		02-Oct-2008 19:08
"Be happy if you are cursed and insulted for being a Christian, for when that happens the Spirit of God will come upon you with great Glory".

Linda		02-Oct-2008 16:14
"Rebuke your brother if he sins, and forgive him if he is sorry". Luke 17:3

Guest		02-Oct-2008 14:56
To all who have chosen to use this website as their platform for whatever comments you have toward one another, remember this: Jesus did rebuke people when he was on earth, but guess what?? HE was Jesus!!!! Makes a big difference. Remember what Jesus said, He that is without sin among you, cast the first stone. To both sides of the "Jeply vs. whoever" commentary, It is better to have people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth (or type on a keyboard) and remove all doubt. I do not think Jesus would think that either of you will make Him smile. Why cause someone to be turned off to His love by such comment as He doesn't know you. He knows us all that's why He loves us. and why make such a comment about religion?? Religion is not what gets us to heaven, it is our love to Him. The people who have died, were not a result of religion, but a result of people being so closed minded that they did not let people believe what they wanted to. May God convict your hearts of your comments and fill it with His love - if you will allow Him.

Linda		02-Oct-2008 14:44
Get out of here Satan (Jelpy)!!!!!!!! "For it also says not to put the Lord your God to a foolish Test"

Linda		02-Oct-2008 13:45
I submit to those on this site trying to rebuke Jelpy, to turn your back on him and not react or reply, for it only feeds his ego and pride. He is only goading us into reacting for it is only then that he feels strong. If he has no audience, he will only be babbling on to himself. "If you rebuke a mocker, you will only get a smart retort; yes, he will snarl at you. So don't bother with him; he will only hate you for trying to help him. But a wise man when rebuked will love you all the more". Proverbs 9:7 So turn your back and shake off the very dust from your feet as a testamony against him!

Guest		02-Oct-2008 13:29
Jelpy How funny that you should chastise for repeated messages when you are guilty of the same!!!! Rejoice when we are persecuted for righteousness sake for the Kingdom of Heaven will be ours!!!! I submit to those on this site trying to refute Jelpy, to turn your back on him and not react or reply, for it only feeds his ego and pride. He is only goading us into reacting for it is only then that he feels strong. If he has no audience, he will only be babbling on to himself. So again I say, responding will only make him snarl more, so after trying to convince him, turn our backs on him and wipe the dust from our feet!!!!!

Guest		02-Oct-2008 12:36
Why do you all take something beautiful, and wreck havoc on it with your bitting remarks.?. Enjoy the pics and realizre how much time love, and work went into this. Keep love in your hearts people. There is to much hatred in the world already.

Guest		02-Oct-2008 12:34
Why do you all take something beautiful, and wreck havoc on it with your bitting remarks.?. Enjoy the pics and realizre how much time love, and work went into this. Keep love in your hearts people. There is to much hatred in the world already.

Guest		02-Oct-2008 05:25
Actually, there were not two of every species... of the Unclean creatures, TWO: the male and its female, i.e. a pig. Of the Clean creatures, there were SEVEN, three males and four females i.e. a cow. The reason the larger creatures entered the two by two, was that because the door was only so wide... two elephants, and so-forth.

JELPY		02-Oct-2008 04:19
Sarah Itold you NOT to refresh the page when you want to see the newest posts!!! Because of a bug in this website it does REPOST YOUR LAST MESSAGE AGAIN AND AGAIN!!! This (Sarah message dated 02-Oct-2008 02:27) is the 2nd time you are posting the VERY SAME MESSAGE you already posted on 01-Oct-2008 20:04. To AVOID this 1) bookmark this page, 2) open a new window/new tab and 3) access the page from the bookmark. Thank you. .

Sarah		02-Oct-2008 02:27
I refuse to argue with people about someone else's beliefs. If that is what you believe about Wiccan's Joseph than that is your choice. However, I have a friend who has been a wiccan for ten years and I can guarantee you that he does not worship the devil. Putting a label on one person because of something you believe is wrong because you do not know every Wiccan personally. Just as attacking people in the name of God (verbally, physically, or in any other form) is wrong. I don't know the exact verse, "do not judge, lest ye be judged" is a Bible verse though and it seems like a lot of the people on here are judging.

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 22:58
To Josephine (Just a mother of two) If your friend doesn't know me and my name, I do know your friend's name: CRUTCH !! .

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 22:57
To Josephine (Just a mother of two) If your friend doesn't know me and my name, I do know your friend's name: CRUTCH !! .

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 22:46
I have a friend How many times people will use the �Well I have a friend and he/she knows for a fact� when they are really just offering their own words trying to make it look like they are shared by the many? I see this happening every day and even upon this very site. You know something? I have a friend as well. Like your friend you can not see him or even call him on the phone to have a chat, and yet I offer he is real. He desires to be your friend as well. He will help you mend your heart when it seems imposable to heal. He is always willing to share the burden when life seems at its worst. He is with me now as I type this for you to read. If you accept him as your friend he will not only do house calls, but is willing to stay by your side even as you sleep. He will never leave you once you accept him by your side, but unfortunately you can send him away. Even when you send him away he will be waiting for you if needed again. He is waiting for you right now. Do not be afraid when I offer he is already waiting by your side. Yes I offered he is with me, but he is with you as well. All he is asking today is for an introduction. Can I have the honor of introducing you to my friend? God Bless Joseph AKA The Trembling Man at: //groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 22:15
************************************************************************************************************ To all, but particularly: To Jason (message: 01-Oct-2008 16:52) Quoting you: "Jelpy: I prayed to my God and unfortunately He said He does not know you. However He did say you were invited to meet Him whenever you are ready. Matthew 7:21-23" ----End of quote---- And to Guest (message: 30-Sep-2008 19:58) Quoting you: "I asked God to help me with the info you requested but He said He didnt know you.I have said a prayer for you. Very nice ark and approx 1/2 scale WOW." ----End of quote---- By the way, Guest, since you're mathematically challenged, I'll help you: 1/2 by 1/3 is 1/6 the scale not 1/2 !!!! HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! To both: 1) either you god is a liar 2) or your god is not all knowing 3) or your god doesn't exist!!! I bet most of you all didn't even ask the 10 very simple questions, NOT EVEN THE FIRST ONE, to your god-buddy because you truly know deep down inside you couldn't get the answers!!! And the fact none of you couldn't even give the slightest and smallest answer is a proof of your fraud!!! If your god did exist and you asked him the questions he would give them to you: would your best buddy hold information from you?!! YES, IF HE DOESN'T EXIST!!! NO, IF HE DOES EXIST!!! Again you give pitiful excuses, thus proving you and your god are frauds!!!! As for pretending your god knows that not all will be saved, that means your god is incompetent, again!!! If he knows everyone individually and he knows what was the event that resulted in the click inside you that supposedly changed your life to make you a believer, how come your god is incapable to make that same click (using different events according to each individual life and personality!!) in every one of his children?!!! Your god is still as impotent today as he was with Moses himself as found in Exodus chapter 4. In this chapter, especially verses 10 to 16 we can blatantly see that: 1) god gets mad and angry at Moses, hardly a behavior for a perfect deity!!!!! 2) god couldn't even convince Moses he could make him a good speaker 3) god couldn't even MAKE Moses a good speaker, since he had to turn to Aaron to be the spokesman!!!! WHAT A WEENIE INCAPABLE IMPOTENT YOUR GOD IS!!!! Try to refute that god was impotent and incapable to make Moses a good speaker!!! Now let's hear your insane, moronic excuses!!!!!! JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" ----------"I you don't understand science try religion!!!" ************************************************************************************************************* .

Guest		01-Oct-2008 21:44
Why would she have to Re-read what is obviously asking her to do against her own beliefs? If she does as you ask she goes against what the Bible teaches and you win. If she does not do as you ask you only offer you won. This is not about having Jesus perform a game for our amusement. This is however a game you are playing very similar to that witch was tried by the Devil was trying to temp God son Jesus.

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 21:14
Christine (message: 01-Oct-2008 18:34) Re-read my previous message carefully and you'll have my answer... .

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 21:07
Very true Linda As was referred to by Liberated when he offered: �The ark is pretty awesome regardless of which the side of the fence you're on. Thanks for sharing the pics. I'm wiping the dust from my heels here. Until we meet again someday... Blessings on you all.� Yes this is a reference from the Bible as Jesus had taught the 12 in how to spread the loving salvation desired for all. Not all will be saved for this is well written. We can not save those who wish not for salvation is personal and only God and his Son know the answers for if one is already lost. Let us do as Jesus taught and not dwell on the hardened hearts. Let us reach for those who are lost and in need of God�s tender love.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 20:54
Dear Guest Romans is a wonderful area to be offering right now. Roman�s is reflective of Leviticus in many ways for Jesus did not come to change one letter of his father�s Laws. Was Paul just making up a set of rules on his own or was he offering the laws of God as already written while sharing with all as Jesus had asked? Was Paul Judging or offering the Judgments already written as he was taught by Jesus to do? I will step aside for you already seem to be offering in this direction and from the Bible itself. Thank you kindly for your offerings showing from the Bible itself. The truth in the words will be found in the Bible. The twisting of the words will be found on the lips of those who would cast doubt. God Bless Joseph

Linda		01-Oct-2008 20:39
I want to thank ALL of you who are trying to reach such a black soul. Ultimately, it is not WE who will bring Jelpy to Christ , but Christ himself. Jehovah Mekoddishkem: The Lord Sanctifies!

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 20:33
Well Sarah that is a coined phrase often taken out of context to silence a Christian. You obviously do not know where it is found for it has a deferent meaning depending on where you are taking it from. What I can tell you is when you figure it out I will address the words you are trying to use from the �Who was speaking to whom and what was being spoken about� I could tell you were to look but this should have you opening the Holy Bible on your own and this is a good thing. Sarah is also the name of a Wicca site founder recruiting, and teaching, others how to lead God loving people astray. I can check to see if I can find her last name as well. It might be in the old E-Mail set up on a free E-Mail site. I will have to check my backup disks from a few years back and see if I can retrieve the password I was using. This is just getting to darned interesting. I think it was Sarah that sent me the Demonic Bible as well. Not sure though. Dang I really do not have time to devote to this game. I will ask my son to check when he has the time. It is kind of funny when you think about it. It is just a name thing. How many people have the name Joseph anyhow? Joseph

Guest		01-Oct-2008 20:32
Jelpy, There is a point in time with unbelievers, that when reached , God gives a person over to a "reprobate mind". I don't know if you are there yet, only God knows. But if not, you must be very close. Once this point is reached there is no turning back to God. Romans 1:28-32 (NIV) Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved (or reprobate) mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. When a person is turned over to a "reprobate mind", it is futile for a Christian to try and reach that person. Christians are told in this case: Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend (or attack) you. This is what you are doing on this website. Attacking Christians. I pray that there is still time left for you. You are currently in the fast lane on the road to destruction. I will not respond (or cast pearls) to you again, unless you are asking how to come to Christ.

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 20:04
I refuse to argue with people about someone else's beliefs. If that is what you believe about Wiccan's Joseph than that is your choice. However, I have a friend who has been a wiccan for ten years and I can guarantee you that he does not worship the devil. Putting a label on one person because of something you believe is wrong because you do not know every Wiccan personally. Just as attacking people in the name of God (verbally, physically, or in any other form) is wrong. I don't know the exact verse, "do not judge, lest ye be judged" is a Bible verse though and it seems like a lot of the people on here are judging.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 20:00
Sarah I offer I studied the Wicca in depth and even had a complete copy of the Demonic Bible sent to me by the founder of the largest Wicca site I joined. When I was told they were the good ones by someone I held dear in my heart I wanted to check into it personally. Yes I was told they did not worship the devil. I was told it was not for congering, I was told their motto was to do no harm. Well Sarah I found the answers on my own. Regardless how many Wicca sites I joined they all were doing what I was told they did not. In the Junior stages everything seems sweet and harmless. This is the web being cast as the snares are set. As one progresses the true one they worship is defiantly revealed. I did not do this for finding my dear friend wrong. I was not wanting to be subjective even when I could see the webs of deceit laying the trap from the beginning stages. I was trying to be objecting and hung around till I was accepted by some site owners teaching the new ones as they took me under their wing. My fake E-Mail slowly started to fill with not only their Demonic Bible but congering techniques and recruitment strategies. In the end I wound up writing a skit called �Salvation of a Wicca Woman� you might have heard of this skit. I am the author! I placed the skit in the hands of a Pastor from a church I do not particularly care for because they had the abilities to get the message out. I have never received a dime for this work for it was written from my heart with my tears falling like the rain. The one I call the Wicca woman on this forum is following their playbook quite well. Yes they are a miserable bunch and only find enjoyment when on the prowl doing their true masters biddings. She is the bad person causing the hearts to ponder and then she will swoop in under another name offering them her earthly pleasures. Do not think she will have just one name she is using on this forum. She will have several to support herself. Yes she can do this alone and we will not even know. I will offer you are right in one area. They have many Gods and Goddesses. Lucifer has many names. When doing his bidding to keep others away from God our Heavenly Father he will accept them all as his own. It is their chose who they worship. I understand this completely. I offered more them my pity for them I offered a skit written from the heart. This is all I could do and the skit in itself was my way of helping. Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 19:59
Sarah I offer I studied the Wicca in depth and even had a complete copy of the Demonic Bible sent to me by the founder of the largest Wicca site I joined. When I was told they were the good ones by someone I held dear in my heart I wanted to check into it personally. Yes I was told they did not worship the devil. I was told it was not for congering, I was told their motto was to do no harm. Well Sarah I found the answers on my own. Regardless how many Wicca sites I joined they all were doing what I was told they did not. In the Junior stages everything seems sweet and harmless. This is the web being cast as the snares are set. As one progresses the true one they worship is defiantly revealed. I did not do this for finding my dear friend wrong. I was not wanting to be subjective even when I could see the webs of deceit laying the trap from the beginning stages. I was trying to be objecting and hung around till I was accepted by some site owners teaching the new ones as they took me under their wing. My fake E-Mail slowly started to fill with not only their Demonic Bible but congering techniques and recruitment strategies. In the end I wound up writing a skit called �Salvation of a Wicca Woman� you might have heard of this skit. I am the author! I placed the skit in the hands of a Pastor from a church I do not particularly care for because they had the abilities to get the message out. I have never received a dime for this work for it was written from my heart with my tears falling like the rain. The one I call the Wicca woman on this forum is following their playbook quite well. Yes they are a miserable bunch and only find enjoyment when on the prowl doing their true masters biddings. She is the bad person causing the hearts to ponder and then she will swoop in under another name offering them her earthly pleasures. Do not think she will have just one name she is using on this forum. She will have several to support herself. Yes she can do this alone and we will not even know. I will offer you are right in one area. They have many Gods and Goddesses. Lucifer has many names. When doing his bidding to keep others away from God our Heavenly Father he will accept them all as his own. It is their chose who they worship. I understand this completely. I offered more them my pity for them I offered a skit written from the heart. This is all I could do and the skit in itself was my way of helping. Joseph

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 19:51
First off people need to get their facts straight. Wiccan's do not worship satan and they do believe in a God and a Goddess. They also follow an earth-centered calendar. People should do a little research before they attack a persons beliefs and before they accuse someone of something that they know nothing about.

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 19:37
First off people need to get their facts straight. Wiccan's do not worship satan and they do believe in a God and a Goddess. They also follow an earth-centered calendar. People should do a little research before they attack a persons beliefs and before they accuse someone of something that they know nothing about.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 19:19
Dear Jeni My story is not as powerful as your own. I was brought up by a Sunday school teaching mother. I was a typical boy and although I had the basic understanding instilled the words were only lingering in my mind. It was not until my fist child was born that the words were felt in my heart. I put away the Cycle and bought a mini van. Since 1988 I have been to the bars but a hand full of times and only work related. I taught in my Church I was brought up in as a youth and my Daughter teaches Sunday school today. My boy is in college and helps a Nun who is going to school with her studies. We are not Catholic and this is not an issue. He is just that kind of a young man is all. I have no personal pride, but understand my mothers pride in me. I have this pride for my children as well. Pride is only a personal sin. Pride in ones child is a blessing. Thank you for asking. It is always enjoyable to share. Joseph

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 18:55
Sarah I offer I studied the Wicca in depth and even had a complete copy of the Demonic Bible sent to me by the founder of the largest Wicca site I joined. When I was told they were the good ones by someone I held dear in my heart I wanted to check into it personally. Yes I was told they did not worship the devil. I was told it was not for congering, I was told their motto was to do no harm. Well Sarah I found the answers on my own. Regardless how many Wicca sites I joined they all were doing what I was told they did not. In the Junior stages everything seems sweet and harmless. This is the web being cast as the snares are set. As one progresses the true one they worship is defiantly revealed. I did not do this for finding my dear friend wrong. I was not wanting to be subjective even when I could see the webs of deceit laying the trap from the beginning stages. I was trying to be objecting and hung around till I was accepted by some site owners teaching the new ones as they took me under their wing. My fake E-Mail slowly started to fill with not only their Demonic Bible but congering techniques and recruitment strategies. In the end I wound up writing a skit called �Salvation of a Wicca Woman� you might have heard of this skit. I am the author! I placed the skit in the hands of a Pastor from a church I do not particularly care for because they had the abilities to get the message out. I have never received a dime for this work for it was written from my heart with my tears falling like the rain. The one I call the Wicca woman on this forum is following their playbook quite well. Yes they are a miserable bunch and only find enjoyment when on the prowl doing their true masters biddings. She is the bad person causing the hearts to ponder and then she will swoop in under another name offering them her earthly pleasures. Do not think she will have just one name she is using on this forum. She will have several to support herself. Yes she can do this alone and we will not even know. I will offer you are right in one area. They have many Gods and Goddesses. Lucifer has many names. When doing his bidding to keep others away from God our Heavenly Father he will accept them all as his own. It is their chose who they worship. I understand this completely. I offered more them my pity for them I offered a skit written from the heart. This is all I could do and the skit in itself was my way of helping. Joseph

Christine		01-Oct-2008 18:34
Jelpy, what if I did give every answer you were looking for? What if I answered all 10 questions perfectly? What if my Lord gave me all that information about you? Would you really believe in some cosmic "psychic"? Would you fall on your face in awe if The Lord were to reveal all that to me? Would you finally give him your whole life, your whole heart? Or would you, as you accuse "us Christians" of doing, just give excuses as to why you still don't or won't believe? I HIGHLY doubt that giving some facts about you would bring you to your knees. I'm so very sorry that I can't provide you with those facts. If God wanted me to know that; if He wanted anyone to know that, for that matter, they would. Why don't you, as someone else suggested, search for God yourself? Why don't you go to Him & ask Him to reveal himself to you instead of going to humans to reveal God to you? Those are the better questions. There are a lot of people talking to God about you right now; your answers may be coming soon, but to different questions!

Guest2		01-Oct-2008 17:17
Jelpy, my cousin once told me "Tell your God to make that stuffed animal move across the room and then I will believe in Him." God didn't do that but he revealed Himself in another way to my cousin. My cousin is now a Christian. :-) Why do you want us to prove Him? Why not ask Him to reveal Himself to you?

Jeni		01-Oct-2008 17:07
Do any of the Christians out there remember the day God's light finally shone in the pit you called your life? The day you found out you were the lost coin, the lost sheep, the prodigal son? I remember that day. Before that day there is no human being, on earth or beyond it, who could have convinced me that God created the universe and not that He (or she) WAS the Universe. And after that day, there is no one who can convince me that God is not. Now I understand a little better how those people who saw me flailing, failing, drowning in my fear and sadness and sin, how they wanted so much to bash into my brain and my being that God is real, He is true, He is loving and kind and merciful and just... Those people who loved me even though I rejoiced in being the irreverent unruly one; those people who stood silently in the gap between me and heaven. I have a taste now of how they felt when they looked at me back then. We must remember that all hope is not lost on the souls of those who challenge the truth. It is not ours to convert anyone, only to pray for God's will to be done. Because I attest: what God wills, there is no way against it. I was a lost cause one moment and completely found the next. I know that. Nothing changes what I went through; nothing convinces me that it was anything other than divine supernatural intervention. And, regardless of how many capital letters and exclamation points and diagnoses of mental illness someone throws out while calling me and other Christians (and my God, for that matter) fools, I will not surrender. Those words are that person's opinion; my life and relationship with God are facts. I am not a fool to believe in God, to trust in Him. I am not a fool to believe the Bible. I am blessed with simple faith. Once known, there are things that cannot be un-known - regardless of others' beliefs, opinions or protestations. May all who know and love Him rejoice in their own testimony of His rescue in your lives; may all who do not be found and given their own stories of His entrance into theirs.

Jason		01-Oct-2008 16:52
Jelpy: I prayed to my God and unfortunately He said He does not know you. However He did say you were invited to meet Him whenever you are ready. Matthew 7:21-23

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 16:06
First off people need to get their facts straight. Wiccan's do not worship satan and they do believe in a God and a Goddess. They also follow an earth-centered calendar. People should do a little research before they attack a persons beliefs and before they accuse someone of something that they know nothing about.

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 16:00
First off people need to get their facts straight. Wiccan's do not worship satan and they do believe in a God and a Goddess. They also follow an earth-centered calendar. People should do a little research before they attack a persons beliefs and before they accuse someone of something that they know nothing about.

JODY		01-Oct-2008 15:03
Amazing -would love to see it

Linda		01-Oct-2008 13:43
Jelpy, With your intellectually closed mind you might want to look up "Theomatics" @ www.theomatics.com/theomatics/home. Also research "Scientific Approach to Biblical Mysteries" written by Nuclear Scientist "Robert W. Faid. He decidedd to research the stories found in the Bible and the result of his investigation proves that science does not contradict the Bible, but actually SUPPORTS it!!!!

Liberated		01-Oct-2008 12:56
And after He deals Satan, I also like Jesus' response to Pilate - silence. Jelpy. It is clear this is not the time for you to understand. I wish you well and hope that you find what it is you are looking for one day. The ark is pretty awesome regardless of which the side of the fence you're on. Thanks for sharing the pics. I'm wiping the dust from my heels here. Until we meet again someday... Blessings on you all.

Guest		01-Oct-2008 12:10
Matthew 4:7 7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 07:26
************************************************************************************************************ The clock is ticking and we're way past half the allotted time for my ultra simple challenge I offered you. All you have to do to take this challenge is do exactly what you already do each and every day: pray your god-buddy and just ask him a few simple questions. If I were him or even rather simply you, I'd jump on the opportunity to be the very first human to ever prove that biblegod exists!!! Think about it: newspapers and television networks, of the whole entire world, even CNN!!! will want to have you as a special guest and interview you for being the very first person to prove that god would exist!!! However, and you already proved it dozens of times until now, you and I perfectly know you can't do it!! Because you're a fraud, your god doesn't exist and the bible is a fraud as well. If you were right, if god existed and the bible actually was the inerrant word of god, and if god did answer prayers (that's a whole bunch of IF's) then a single prayer would change the world. But you're too afraid to even try, just 'coz deep down inside you well know you'll never get those very simple (for an all knowing deity) questions answered, and you damn well know why!!!!!!!!! But you're so dishonest to even admit it that in more than 24 hours, we've had NOTHING!! Nothing but posts about things totally unrelated to my very simple challenge, and a pair of ludicrous and silly excuses!!! NOT EVEN THE SIMPLEST OF ANSWERS: e.g. my favorite pet's name: just a single word!!! Or my full name: just 3 words!!! Or my shoes and shirt sizes: just a few numbers!!! You flatly and blatantly FAILED, exactly as I prophesied you would!!! See I'm a true prophet of my non-god!!! Bwahahahaha!!!! I made predictions that actually happened!!!!! But you still have a bit less than 24 hours to try to prove me wrong on my second prophecy, which is this: I solemnly predict and prophesies that none of you believers will be able to take and fulfill the challenge that I gave you a bit over 24 hours ago and that I repeat below for easy access: --------------Start of quote:------------ FACT #1: All of you believers pretend prayer works. FACT #1: All of you believers pretend you have a personal relationship with Jesus/biblegod and you pray and discuss things and he answers you, comforts you, etc. So I challenge you that the next time you chat with your god/buddy to ask him to tell you the following facts; then you will have to write them here on this very page to prove he actually revealed this information to you; so that everyone (or most) of you can prove this to ALL of us. So the first of you will write information pertaining to point number 1 below, the second will write information number 2, etc. Here we go with the requests: 1) write my full name: first, middle and last!!! I'm so much sure of the ineptitude of your claims and that your god/buddy is a fraud that I don't the least bit fear for my privacy!!! 2) write my date of birth and exact time (hh:mm) 3) write the precise name of my birth place: state, county, city, street, street #, and building 4) write my private phone, fax and cellular #s (red listed) and my ss# 5) write my current address: state, county, city, street, street #, etc. 6) write my shoes and shirt sizes 7) Something I learned while in Europe: "taytchinsho": (this is phonetically transcribed on purpose) a) what language is it in? b) How is it normally written in that language? c) and what's the meaning in English? 8) write my favorite pet's name 9) write the name of the seminary I attended 10) write the dates I served as a missionary: both start and end: mm/dd/yy Your god must do this, as failing to do so will be a blatant proof as to you and your god being frauds, plus the bible (+ koran) as well alongside with it!!!!! 10 easy questions!!! I think many of those informations are personal enough, yet they're a piece o' cake for an "all knowing" deity who can even read the mind of people!!! ----Now my promise to you, my challenge: If you give ALL the answers and they are absolutely correct, then I promise I will serve and love your amazing god and him alone!!!!!! However I take absolutely no risk as I'M POSITIVE YOU WILL FLATLY AND BLATANTLY FAIL!!!!! But of course I give you this challenge and offer you mine to show that I'm TOTALLY open minded!!! **NOTE: NO EXCUSES WHATSOEVER WILL BE ADMITTED!!!** So if all you can think of are rationalizations and excuses, DON'T EVEN BOTHER answering!!! Giving excuses will be the proof that you and your god are failing and therefore are a fraud and that the bible (+koran) is a fraud as well!!! -------EITHER PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!!!------- I will wait approximately 48 hours till 11:59PM EDST on Oct. 1st, 2008; much more than enough time for you to pray like you've never done before!!! PS: REMEMBER: NO EXCUSES WHATSOEVER WILL BE ADMITTED!!! --------------End of quote:------------ JELPY "Religion is the greatest and dreadest crime against humanity!! Not only tens of millions were murdered, tortured, beheaded, burnt, imprisoned for life, etc. in its name, ----------BUT WORST:---------- RELIGION CRIPPLES THE MINDS of billions more, and removes all sense of analysis, logic and criticism IN A-L-L OF ITS SHEEP-FOLLOWERS!!!" ************************************************************************************************************* .

Guest		01-Oct-2008 06:38
i love the hard work and effort that has been made for this ark. it is a shame that people see this opportunity to use this web page as their soapbox-jelpy go start your own webpage im sure youll find many will visit you to be stirred as you wish and then we will all be happy.

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 06:32
HOW TO CONVERT AN ATHEIST PART 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI HOW TO CONVERT AN ATHEIST PART 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmcOG-na4E .

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:16
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 6 of 6 The Sword of Judgment was given to Jesus and the day will come when he passes his Righteous Judgment. Not until he comes again will these words be truly understood by all and yes all will yet have the chance to be saved. We will all be judged individually and not by family, or Church of choice, when this time comes into being. Not one of us can enter God�s kingdom upon our own merit, but like the groom Jesus has already paid the price. He will come again to collect his bride and his father will accept us as his son�s chosen. As I have gone through this one important area of the Bible I have added many of my own words. Ask yourself� were they really mine added? Do you recognize them as being from all areas of the Bible and just one humbled mans way of expressing the glorious message contained? This is all I can offer my friends for the only true offerings can be found in the Bible itself. God Bless and I thank you kindly for reading what I needed to share. Joseph AKA The Trembling Man on our new site for Biblical sharing found at : //groups.yahoo.com/group/For_God_So_Loved_The_World/

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:16
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 5 of 6 �41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.� When I offer for God I try to only show what the Bible offers. In this I am not offering but showing what has already been written. This is the only book I follow when offering from the heart. The Word of God is not to be read for the mind, but shared from the heart. I do not stand on my interpolation of God�s Word, but know I will be judged on my heart in showing others and leading them towards his word written. Put down your books written about the Bible and open the Bible itself. Take what you find and share it openly with another. In this you are sharing the words written in the name of those who offered. �42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.� There is so much more to this then meets the eye. Yes we need to tend the flesh, but do we feed the soul? Do you know someone week in the heart? Do not offer they should buy a Bible if they wish the answers. Give them a Bible and help them find the answers.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:15
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 4 of 6 �39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.� When confronted for your faith, and love for God, do you become silent? If attacked physically for your belief will you deny Christ to save your flesh? Jesus did not offer to die for us my loving friends. He did and at our own hands. Still he never denied his love and professed his love for us all from his very Cross. �Father Forgive them� The very words echo in my humbled heart today and like thunder he will come again. �40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.� This is a very straight forward difference from many other religions that honor our same Heavenly Father Creator of all. While those who do not believe that Jesus is the son of God they do accept that he was born to Mary and Joseph. Most of them see Jesus as a prophet while a few others in a less inheartening way. I bring this up not for the sake of contrasting beliefs, but rather to show the common bond we have in our Heavenly Father. I am a 20 year Veteran and had the blessings, and honor, in studying the Bible with some Jewish friends. They accepted me as a Christian without a hindrance of offensiveness. I found this very fulfilling, and heartwarming, as we dug deep into the Old Testament together for a better understanding shared. We are of ONE GOD people and in this we should be accepting that we are all God�s children. With this said let us go on. Jesus was referring to those who would reject his 12 disciples when carrying forth the message of Christ. If they be accepted when sharing then those who accepted were also accepted in Christ. In this they were also accepted by his Father. Our Father! When we spread the message of Christ we can not force acceptance upon the heart. Instead we need to plant the seed and let it flourish and grow. It is not good to dwell on one who will consume our time in arguments and hostilities. In this are time is consumed and our abilities to share with others is taken away. We need to remember the twelve were also instructed to brush the sand from their feet and move on when this happens. Why then do we as Christian stand and argue? Show them for what they are (bringing the lies to light) and then walk away.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:14
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 3 of 6 �37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.� People often show this area starting with verse 34 as a reason to offer Jesus as horrendous and unjust. This is easy to be twisted when overlooking we are not talking about the secular world of today. We are talking about the Day of Judgment when Jesus comes again. This will be a spiritual judgment and not one of the flesh in itself. Jesus loves us all and this can be seen as a warning to all. Teach you children well! Parents love your children and teach them well. Do not punish them unjustly for this will lead to disobedience and resentment. Children love your parents and respect their authority. Do not harbor ill will for a punishment well deserved or intended to keep you from harm. The love of God�s gifts, and blessing, should be reflective, and shown, in a family. A parent�s love for their child should be that of our Heavenly Father towards ourselves. Our child�s love should reflect the love we show for our Heavenly Father. In this we gain a better understanding of God�s love for all. To do otherwise weakens the sprit and give the devil what he needs to lead one astray. They also use this passage to say it would turn husband against wife and this would be against God�s Law trying to show contradiction. In Marriage it is our flesh we give to our chosen. Do not let my saying this diminish the importance of Marriage. Marriage is a trinity, in itself, and a covenant of the flesh made with God. Marriage is when two are joined together �By God� and enter into a personal covenant, of love and faith, for sharing as one in the joys he has given. All reverence should be given such a covenant when made �With God� for the flesh. In Christ we accept of the spirit and give of our soul. This is not of the earth, or secular mind, but rather of that witch is not bound by the flesh and belongs only to our Father. �38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.� Whose cross do you carry? Do you share it or hide it away? When he comes to pass righteous judgment will you follow or be left behind?

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:14
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 2 of 6 Even with this understanding we acknowledge not all can or will be saved. Jesus explained this when he was teaching the twelve disciples how to go forth and spread his message. It is always best to read all that is offered, but I wish to take a look at Matthew 10: 32-42. Jesus said: Matthew 10 (King James Version) �32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.� Spreading our love in Christ is not just our right, but it is offered as our responsibility for sharing this love. �33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.� Many will not only deny the salvation through Jesus, but even the very existence of God. Many more will choose worshiping Satan for their hearts burn with earthly lustful desires. �34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� Throughout the Bible the Sword is revealed as the Righteous Justice of God�s Judgment over evil. He does not judge us by secular laws but will Judge those who follow the secular laws that are against his laws. God�s laws are not of this world, but rather his laws for the world. �35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.� No house will be passed over as a whole for we will all stand individually accountable for our deeds. �36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.� No house shall fall as a whole for even if only one is acceptable the one will be saved.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 06:13
Matthew 10: 32-42 Part 1 of 6 Be aware when you offer to the one who will twist your words and lead others astray. This person I refer to as the Wicca Woman is not an agnostic for an agnostic would not have the motivation (and drive) to attack all religions that recognize, and love, God. Now she has offered putting Jesus to the test in an orcastated carnival game. If Jesus does not do as asked then we are to say he is a fake along with denouncing Gods existence. She spews the fowl stench of her master�s words. Read Mathew 4 and see the correlation so resembling what she is offering today. Her master beckons at us all in the same ways shown in the Bible. When being tempted Jesus never wavered and even offered: Matthew 4:7 (King James Version) Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. I completely agree with the concept of trying to heal her and yet I fear she has already shown her desire to be bound in Satan. Let us pray I am wrong for Jesus did not die for those who think they are without sin; he died for the sinners whom he truly desires to save. Even the ones who worship the Devil can, and will, be saved should they turn towards Jesus and accept him into their hearts. We, that already accept Jesus, know we can not save ourselves. It is through Jesus alone we can be made acceptable with God. We also know we are not able to save another for true acceptance in Christ has to come from inside. As Christians it is not just a right to reach out towards the sinners, hoping to show them the path, but a responsibility for all are of God. Would we not desire helping a brother or sister in finding this loving relationship with God? Would we not wish for their hearts to be flooded with the Love of Jesus? We are all of one family for God is the Father of all. I am sorry. I realize I am offering in many directions and only from my heart. This in itself is slightly secular. Let me regroup and offer using the Bible itself so I am not riddled with trying to convey what is already written.

Joseph (Just a father of two)		01-Oct-2008 05:58
Today I was writing to address my concerns and give hope and inspiration to all who enjoy the pictures for what they mean in your hearts. Take what is good from this site (The Pictures) and offer them on another site along with your loving words shared. I am concerned for the reasoning�s this site was set up. I see many attacks upon all religions that love God and this is very upsetting in my heart. We already know the most vicious has the powers of Admin so this in itself answers my question. I will share what I wrote shortly after I figure out how many parts it will take. Yes it is a little lengthy, but it is an offering from the heart out of personal concern for all that are being attacked upon this forum. God Bless Joseph

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 05:39
Jelpy, I wasn't trying to be redundant, I was trying to get these people to understand that it doesn't matter if they don't believe what you believe. You have a right to your opinion and a right to say how you feel without having to feel like a complete outcast. I don't agree with more than half of what is written by these people. I believe most of them are naive and believe that what they are told is the truth and they don't question anything. Anyways, that's all I was trying to say.

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 05:19
Food for thoughts (LOTS of bible quotes in the second video) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnj7PlqmJ5o&feature=user More videos in the series at the linked pages. .

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 05:04
SARAH AND ALL OF YOU WITH MULTIPLE POSTS WITH THE VERY SAME TEXT: Could you be so kind as to stop your multiple redundant posts?!!! Thank you!! I know, I already realized it's a bug in the conception of this site. However it only took me one redundant post to understand it. And I understand too that not everybody has Einstein's IQ too. (Hint to avoid redundant posts: 1) just Bookmark this page 2) DO NOT refresh this page, but 3) open a new window/new tab and access your bookmark from there) .

JELPY		01-Oct-2008 04:57
Dear all, Thank you for your concerns about me. You aee kind souls I admit. However you're all stubborn and refuse to understand that PRAYERS DON'T WORK!!! Even with hundreds of MLLIONS of people offering BILLIONS of prayers as I've written in my message dated 29-Sep-2008 06:39. How do you explain that?! If not that god doesn't care or doesn't exist!!!

Sarah		01-Oct-2008 04:55
Just out of curiosity what is the matter with not believing in the Bible? I believe in God and some of the stories about him, however, I don't believe that everything that was written in the Bible is "the word of God." The Bible was written by many men, not God, and man is not perfect, no man is. The Bible has also been translated many times and into many different languages and in those languages they have different meanings for the same word so how do we know that the Bible that most of us have read is completely accurate. The first time someone started writing about Jesus' life was 300 years after he died. 300 years!!! Have you ever played the game telephone, where you tell someone somthing and they tell someone else, and so on until they finally get to the end and it's nothing even close to what was originally said. Not that I don't believe in Jesus, I do, I just don't believe everything I'm told. That's kind of like telling your kids today that everything they see on TV is true. Are people really that naive. I don't feel that men are born bad and must be saved before they die. I was born and raised a Christian but I do have a brain too and I can think for myself and I am not naive enough to believe that the Bible is the be all to end all. I believe in God, my God, and as long as people believe in something that's all that matters. Why does everyone have to believe in the same God and be a saved soul in order for them to not be damned to hell? And why is it so important for people to argue that their religion or their beliefs are better than somone elses? That's all I have to say, I just don't think it's worth all of the trouble arguing over this stuff and I read all of the comments and wanted to put my two-sense in. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. By the way this arc is beautiful and amazing, and whether you believe the Noah's arc story, in God, or the Bible, this is still amazing. The scale of it and the fact that one man had an idea to do this and did it on his own is amazing.

Guest		01-Oct-2008 02:22
Here is a copy of a note sent to Jelpy's profile.........Prayer works with numbers...the more prayers the better....So, why don't we all do as she has asked this man to do.... from Debbie 30-Sep-2008 04:22 Let's pray for God forgiveness. Dear Father, I pray for this lost soul. He needs you in his life. He needs you to show him the way. Dear Jesus, please come into this person's life show them the way back to your love and guidance. Let him see that he will not be alone in this journey into your life. He really needs your help in getting what he lost back. I pray to you Jesus' he needs you. His family needs you to help guide him back to the road to heaven. In Jesus' name I pray. AMEN!

Linda		30-Sep-2008 20:54
Johan, Thank you for making the ARK even MORE real to me!!!!!!! I dearly wish I could see it in person!!!

Sarah		30-Sep-2008 20:21
Just out of curiosity what is the matter with not believing in the Bible? I believe in God and some of the stories about him, however, I don't believe that everything that was written in the Bible is "the word of God." The Bible was written by many men, not God, and man is not perfect, no man is. The Bible has also been translated many times and into many different languages and in those languages they have different meanings for the same word so how do we know that the Bible that most of us have read is completely accurate. The first time someone started writing about Jesus' life was 300 years after he died. 300 years!!! Have you ever played the game telephone, where you tell someone somthing and they tell someone else, and so on until they finally get to the end and it's nothing even close to what was originally said. Not that I don't believe in Jesus, I do, I just don't believe everything I'm told. That's kind of like telling your kids today that everything they see on TV is true. Are people really that naive. I don't feel that men are born bad and must be saved before they die. I was born and raised a Christian but I do have a brain too and I can think for myself and I am not naive enough to believe that the Bible is the be all to end all. I believe in God, my God, and as long as people believe in something that's all that matters. Why does everyone have to believe in the same God and be a saved soul in order for them to not be damned to hell? And why is it so important for people to argue that their religion or their beliefs are better than somone elses? That's all I have to say, I just don't think it's worth all of the trouble arguing over this stuff and I read all of the comments and wanted to put my two-sense in. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. By the way this arc is beautiful and amazing, and whether you believe the Noah's arc story, in God, or the Bible, this is still amazing. The scale of it and the fact that one man had an idea to do this and did it on his own is amazing.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 19:58
I asked God to help me with the info you requested but He said He didnt know you.I have said a prayer for you. Very nice ark and approx 1/2 scale WOW.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 19:45
sarah, you are right on several things, but it was not 300 years before folks started writing about jesus. the gospels and epistles all date to the second half of first century of the common era. read a little more before you make a point with seriously flawed information.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 19:42
there are things in the bible that don't match up. there are serious differences within genesis. kings-chronicles have quite a few differences in telling the "history" of israel. the bible is theological story-telling; it was not written in the same we think of history today.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 19:22
The Bible is a HISTORY book!!! Written by man, yes BUT INSPIRED by God, passed down from Generation to Generation. Different interpretations of the Bible? Absolutely, but I use FIVE of them to give me better insight to his word. They all essentially say the same thing, just in a different way!

Sarah		30-Sep-2008 19:08
Just out of curiosity what is the matter with not believing in the Bible? I believe in God and some of the stories about him, however, I don't believe that everything that was written in the Bible is "the word of God." The Bible was written by many men, not God, and man is not perfect, no man is. The Bible has also been translated many times and into many different languages and in those languages they have different meanings for the same word so how do we know that the Bible that most of us have read is completely accurate. The first time someone started writing about Jesus' life was 300 years after he died. 300 years!!! Have you ever played the game telephone, where you tell someone somthing and they tell someone else, and so on until they finally get to the end and it's nothing even close to what was originally said. Not that I don't believe in Jesus, I do, I just don't believe everything I'm told. That's kind of like telling your kids today that everything they see on TV is true. Are people really that naive. I don't feel that men are born bad and must be saved before they die. I was born and raised a Christian but I do have a brain too and I can think for myself and I am not naive enough to believe that the Bible is the be all to end all. I believe in God, my God, and as long as people believe in something that's all that matters. Why does everyone have to believe in the same God and be a saved soul in order for them to not be damned to hell? And why is it so important for people to argue that their religion or their beliefs are better than somone elses? That's all I have to say, I just don't think it's worth all of the trouble arguing over this stuff and I read all of the comments and wanted to put my two-sense in. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. By the way this arc is beautiful and amazing, and whether you believe the Noah's arc story, in God, or the Bible, this is still amazing. The scale of it and the fact that one man had an idea to do this and did it on his own is amazing.

GeorgeAnn		30-Sep-2008 18:36
The is a remarkable accomplishment no matter what. Either believe or don't, as God either is or is not, but to critize an accomplishment because of someone else's belief is unkind and down right petty. I would hope that it might inspire some to remember their faith (not religion, but faith) and those with the shape tongues might want to look up that word- it is spelled FAITH. They might also remember that God belongs to no one, there is no "our God" or "their God" there only is or is not God.

Linda		30-Sep-2008 17:35
Jelpy, It is so sad to see someone expend SO much energy trying to prove that their opinion is the only correct view in the world. It is obvious to me and others on this site that your pain is SO deep that it blinds you to the truth. Why do you feel compelled to feed your hatred by using this website to try to justify your stance? If our views are so offensive why do you continue? Everyone posting here is only trying to reach out to you. Can you not feel the compassion & love directed toward you? Its only pity & sadness we feel for a soul so lost as to be unable to experience any joy, but only pain. I cannot fathom a life so filled with hatred and pain. I can only pray that one day your heart will soften and that you will come to know Christ and experience the Joy and grace He wants to offer you. May God bless you!!!!

Concerned		30-Sep-2008 16:21
Jelpy, I dare you to read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Faith". He, like you did not believe in God, or any claims of the Bible. After observing first-hand the worst that the inner cities of this country offer, Lee simply couldn't believe that there was a loving God, or that any god would have anything to offer him. As it turned out, Lee found what so many throughout the history of mankind have found, and that is that he was hard-wired from the God of this universe to desire a personal relationship with that God. AND, that God desperately desired that relationship with him! Lee went on to make the point that at the end of the day, we all HAVE to believe in something! Not believing IS NOT an option. If we believe there is a God, we have to accept a certain number of other concepts. If we choose not to believe in God or Christianity, (or whatever religion), then we "believe"; might I suggest "trust" that there isn't a God of the universe who will judge our lives at some point in the future. I don't have to convince you, but you have to believe, or be prepared to suffer the consequences. Good luck, and I hope you find the God that you are hard-wired to find. He SO wants you to find Him.

Liberated		30-Sep-2008 15:25
Jelpy, I don't claim to be a smart man, just "liberated" - not so much FROM something, but TO something. Like Forrest Gump said, "I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is." It would be impossible for me to "enlighten" you because as I have stated time and time again, you have a schism between your head and your heart. Prayer is not a monologue. Prayer is not thinking or knowledge based. Prayer involves many things. There is no prescription. God is not a cosmic Santa Claus granting good little boys and girls what they want. 'Read' the rest of the Bible. But if you read it for information, you'll miss the point. It won't make sense. It 'appears' to contradict itself. I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers or pinpoint what has hurt you so bad from your life that you despise what you claim you do not believe. But I can read pain so much in your words. You wrote before that someone was always besides the point. It may seem like that, but the facts are that the "point" is deeper than these arguments here. Do you believe that someone really loves you enough to help you deal with it? Maybe you don't even know what 'it' is? Why would you be continuing to write seeking answers to questions when something else is really bothering you beyond your comments? What is it that you really want, Jelpy? seriously... no sarcasm here. no jokes.

Dani		30-Sep-2008 14:35
I don't understand why any of you bother. There are sadly people out there that don't want to be helped. You are wasting your breath with him. Move on and don't give him the time of day. This is what people like him thrive on. He just wants to go back and forth with all of you.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 14:21
I'm new here and will not be back...however...I have but one thing I feel compelled to say to all of you believers and non-beleivers alike... Behave in a way that would exemplify your beleifs...speak only good...share your kindness and love only with sweet words and actions...leave the rest to "god" or "God" or "Allah" or whatever supream being may or may not exist! If we could all live by this coda...none of the foolish arguing here would matter and perhaps we could obtain that which eludes us all...believers and non-believers alike!!!! Whatever you believe about the "truth" or "fiction" of the "bible" or the "Bible" one grain of truth from said book can not be avoided: "...and the greatest of these is LOVE." So, point being...if you believe or not...live by this standard and let the rest sort itself out!!!!

guest		30-Sep-2008 14:01
Yikes! We just got high speed internet and boy do I regret it! For all you commentors, only God can work in a person's heart. No arguments will do. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ( 1 Cor. 2:14 NKJV) Neat ark by the way!

Dani		30-Sep-2008 13:05
I don't understand why any of you bother. There are sadly people out there that don't want to be helped. You are wasting your breath with him. Move on and don't give him the time of day. This is what people like him thrive on. He just wants to go back and forth with all of you.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 12:43
It's a miracle of ingenuity!

Guest		30-Sep-2008 08:06
Watch Zeitgeist the movie..!!!!! You can get it online Very important!!! Not just because of the religious aspect of it.

Guest		30-Sep-2008 08:03
zeitgeist--the movie

JELPY		30-Sep-2008 06:27
************************************************************************************************************** To Josephine (Just a mother of two) Dear Sissy Girlie, I'm sorry ma'm that I took you as a man and called you sir!! Please forgive me that I hadn't realized you act like a silly sissy missy!! Too bad you're loosing contact with reality, must be your Alzheimer eating your already crippled brain, havocked by dogmas and fraudulent legends from the most self contradicting and forged book ever written. The more I read from you, all of you, the more I'm glad I'm not enslaved anymore, like you are, by the con book you love to love and that I love to hate!! Who in the world, anyone with more than half a brain cell would not love to hate that fraudulent book that's been proved to b