This was pure luck. To see these birds you had to be at least 20 feet off of the trail, and we happened to run into a British, Birdfinders tour of which somebody happened to see the birds! They put us on them, and we were able to repay the favor later when we ran into Fred Alsop and his group. I went back up the canyon with them, as there was no way to tell them where to lool. I always enjoy helping others when I can, as I have received a LOT of help over the years.