IMG_2654.jpg photo - romy ocon photos at pbase.com

photo sharing and upload

picture albums

photo forums

search pictures

popular photos

photography help

login

romy ocon | all galleries >> Wild Birds of the Philippines (Photos) >> My Favorites >> Pittas and Martins > IMG_2654.jpg

previous | next


15-AUG-2005

IMG_2654.jpg

Plain Martin

Scientific name - Riparia paludicola

Habitat - Uncommon locally along rivers and lakes.

[350D + Sigmonster (Sigma 300-800 DG)]

Canon EOS 350D
1/400s f/11.0 at 572.0mm iso400 full exif

other sizes: small medium original auto

previous | next

All rights reserved. All images are copyrighted and cannot be used without written permission. © 2004-2024 Romy Ocon.

romy ocon		24-Aug-2005 13:58
The ID of this bird is revised to Plain Martin (Riparia paludica). See comments on the gallery.

Marijn		22-Aug-2005 00:22
It's getting dangerous for me now with all these experts around...:-) But I would quickly like to stress some features again and share some new thoughts of me, just before I'm going on holidays for about 2 weeks. I'm curious if there will be a definitive ID when I'm back! 1) Size. The birds are still too small imho for R. riparia, but I found out that R. diluta is a bit smaller, so that would be a better candidate in that regard. 2) Colouration of the upper parts. These birds have a midbrown, somewhat rufous colour (btw Romy, although I know this is difficult matter for you, did you do any major colour corrections on these pics?), while R. riparia in Europe is somewhat darker and duller brown. I'm not sure about R. r. ijimae. 3) The exact location of the vague breast band (NB: please, make sure to check all the other pics of these birds!): In R. riparia the band should be located at the very upper breast. In the birds in these photos that show some (very) faint banding, the band is clearly positioned lower! The upper breast is actually white or whitish. Furthermore, I remember some literature stating that the breast of R. paludicola often is or appears darker than the throat, so perhaps that could be an explanation for the banding... 4) The light rump doesn't suit R. riparia, but how about R. diluta? On the few pics of diluta around on the net it seems to be absent, but it does suit R. paludicola well. 5) George mentioned the white of the breast extending over the shoulder. Good point, we did not take that feature into account yet. It does appear like that on the perched bird in this photo, but when I look at all the other pics, it is not that clear or even absent. Furthermore, in a 'standard' riparia I believe this white is extending further upwards behind the ear coverts. 6) The fork in the tail could be a clue. The fork of riparia is deeper than that of paludicola. Again, I'm not sure about diluta. I think it's difficult to judge the tail forks in these pics, but perhaps you have even more photos, Romy, on which the tail is better visible? Finally, I would like to show you a nice pic of 2 typical juvenile riparia from Europe. I am aware of the fact, though, that the Asian race ijimae might be a bit different. Note the big difference in throat and feather edge colour between the two (both R. riparia - variation or are the lighter bird's feathers more worn?), the location of the breast band (just beneath the throat) and the extension of the white (or buff) on the head. http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=27029 Cheers, Marijn

romy ocon		20-Aug-2005 20:39
Thanks George for dropping by and posting your expert opinion. That definitely pushes the ID now closer to a Sand Martin.

George Candelin		19-Aug-2005 20:23
Hello I regularly ring Sand Martin at a colony in southern England every year, these are probably juvenile Sand Martins. They have pale edges to the feathers on the wings and head, there is a dark breast-band and the white of the breast extends back over the shoulder on the perched bird.

Marijn		18-Aug-2005 18:46
:-) Always fun, your puzzles, much harder than the average mystery bird! But to avoid any misunderstandings, I personally am still leaning very strongly to R. paludicola, because of the reasons mentioned in my first posting.

romy ocon		18-Aug-2005 06:59
Hi Steve and Marijn, The taxonomy of this bird is now way over my head, so I just have to consider a provisional ID. Reading all you comments so far, I perceive a slight lean towards Riparia riparia, so in the meantime that will be the provisional ID. As soon as a consensus is reached, this ID will be finalized or revised. I'm flattered that these pics are posing a good puzzle to my favorite avian scholars...;-)

Marijn Prins		17-Aug-2005 19:44
Steve, you're always welcome ofcourse, but I think I do not quite have as much ornithological experience as you do! I've just found some images of 'bandless' riparias too. Strange, but interesting, so perhaps these individuals occur now and then (but a group of 12?). Btw, in some pics on Google I doubt whether it is really R. riparia that is depicted. R. diluta - Pale Sand Martin: good thought indeed. I did also consider it, but couldn't find many pics of this taxon, nor do I have any (identification) literature about it, so I did not longer bother about it (if it was only one..., but again, a group of 12 in the Philippines?). It appears to me almost as an intermediate between riparia and paludicola, though, and perhaps it is very well possible to occur in the Philippines? Let me quote E.C. Dickinson & R.W.R.J. Dekker (2003): "In south-east Asia there is a need to re-examine all the records attributed to [R. riparia] ijimae. It is possible that R. diluta has been collected and not recognised."

Steve		17-Aug-2005 15:41
Marijn, Thanks for the helpful comments. A very good point with the size comparison to the Pacific Swallow. I guess just about everything now convinces me for paludicola, except the throat. I googled quite a bit on the two and found a number of riparia with this color and also images (of the nominate in U.K.) virtually with no breast coloration at all other than white.. I will stick some notes in my Kennedy regarding the description and figure (regarding the throat color) of the paludicola. I think that if I had seen these photos out of a Philippine context I could have thought they were diluta Martins.

Marijn Prins		17-Aug-2005 15:25
Dear Romy and Steve, Interesting pics (great photos again, Romy!), but after looking carefully at them I can only say: in my humble opinion these birds must be Plain Martins - Riparia paludicola! The only aberrant feature is the whitish or even white throat, but when you take a look at [urlhttp://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/47719446[/url], there are also completely similar individuals in the group that have a darker throat. So perhaps there is some variation in throat colour in paludicola? Otherwise, I can imagine that the throat feathers might become lighter during the summer season due to wear. Or perhaps (worn) immature paludicola's have a lighter throat (can't find evidence for that, though)? The reasons why I don't think these are (Collared) Sand Martins - Riparia riparia: 1) Size! The birds are very tiny. In [urlhttp://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/47772662[/url] the size can be directly compared to that of Pacific Swallow, which appears to be significantly larger. Sand Martins have about the same size as Pacific Swallows or are only a little smaller. 2) Total absence of a breast band. Adult Sand Martins have a very conspicuous dark breast band (or do you know of any races of riparia that lack this band, Steve?). According to the lack of lighter tips to the primaries I would guess many of these birds are adults. Moreover, even immature Sand Martins show a brown breast band, although it can be smaller and a bit blotchy. They furthermore have a buff throat, not white like adults and they have very buffy feather edges. 3) Like you already noted, Steve: clearly lighter rumps are visible in many of the pics. This definitely is a feature pro Plain and against Sand. One thing that I am not sure about is the overall colour. It appears to be a bit rufous brownish, while I would expect Plain Martin to be a duller greyish brown. By the way, the illustrations of the Martins in Kennedy et al. are really quite bad... Don't be fooled by them. Cheers, Marijn

Steve		17-Aug-2005 11:42
Romy, This ID is under review. On a couple of the shots (also the additionals you posted) I can see a decided lighter rump. I am in a quandary as to the amount and distribution of white on the throat. These birds seem to have features good in part for paludicola, and good in part for riparia.

Steve		15-Aug-2005 10:55
Romy, Everything considered, though there are features that would have me think paludicola, I would have to tentatively agree with you on these being Riparia riparia. I see white feather edges, not buff, too much throat white for paludicola. There is no distinct pectoral band which would be expected for adult R. riparia and the overall color should be darker and with some grey-brown. These may be immatures and probably are - so, for me, immature Riparia riparia.