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Philip THOMAS 30-Oct-2011 20:22
God is good. Your NOAH's ARK website is great and there is one "similar" in Frostburg MD USA.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL
PPT BST USA =+=
www.webspawner.com/users/texco/
Guest 15-Dec-2009 18:04
Hello , you a selfish person that barber don't exist.
let look at whole picture . People go to church and guess what
they were clean , no illness, and one day they develope cancer or other illness.
and they beem going to church and believe in god for many year of their life. even
when they were born , their parents took them to church and teach them about god.
so I feel, that you are wrong to tell that to barber. just because you when outside and saw a man that was dirty. you or not christain. god show his ways of suffering, on nice people even that one's that know him.
Richard Haden 25-Oct-2008 08:25
Geekbert, This posting is from a comment I made to an article at ARTLURKER, an online art blog. I posted it in the comments to the latest article. The site is www (dot) artlurker (dot) com

Goofing off takes the enthusiasm and purpose out of fucking off. For a slacker parks bio mass instead of carrying on. "Fucking off" still leads somewhere.

This article reminds me of a book I once read. A three volume book by Robert Musil, titled " The Man Without Qualities" or as another translator might argue a man without attributes. It is a story set in Vienna, Austria , the year 1913. Like this fascinating article and study-here- before us [part soliloquy, muse and conversation], Musil spent 20 years of his life devoted to a similar subject.-- if I may bend it that way.

Musil's protagonist wanders the salons of Viennese high culture pondering a very similar subject, "purpose". Instead of 'Fucking about', he / his translator uses the phrase "Muddling through"..."the Austrian States principle of Muddling through it", not as a direct line or course as an arrow takes-of beginning middle and end. But more like the hobo who hops the train...instead, Musil's protagonist, Ulrich prefers the meandering, more like the character who drifts or wonders the streets of a Baudelaire novel--a wondering kind of exploration ( I think it was Baudelaire, excuse me if I have the wrong author). Musil's, Ulrich finds his social world so full of pedagogues and idealist that he rejects them to become content with life's ambiguity and contingencies, to the point where they become life's necessity (sort of a positive existential thing) I take it as an intellectual realization that we constantly find rejuvenation and passion in the constant quest of the "Fucking off", "Muddling through it" or simply making our life's work the creation of--and the surpassing of-- Art...artfully.

The first book, entitled "A Sort of Introduction", is an introduction of the main character of the story, a 32-year old mathematician named Ulrich who is in search of a sense of life and reality but fails to find it. His ambivalence towards morals and indifference to life has brought him to the state of being "a man without qualities," depending on the outer world to form his character. A kind of keenly analytical passivity is his most typical attitude.

I can't include the link. because this box rejects links. so you can google "Man Without Qualities" to read a bit more about Robert Musil great Book.
Richard Haden 25-Oct-2008 05:44
G, So god made the universe like in the movie, the "Matrix". He writes code, in the way you described below. Hmm, now all we have to do is be like the hero in "Matrix" (ken Reeves) and wake every body up to see the wizard behind the curtain, huh!.
richard Haden 24-Oct-2008 20:10
G, Please do not worry too much about spelling and typos. I understand how a comment box is geared toward guick retort and not the immaculately conceived expression of erudition.
geekbert 24-Oct-2008 04:03
It's late. I noticed several typos after I posted. Here's the correction:

If the god were not physical (or existed in a realm beyond what we understand as the physical universe) then it would seem not.

I wouldn't imagine he wouldn't be limited by the laws of physics any more than I would have to live within the parameters I set in software code I might write. I exist outside of the code but may interact with it. Existing outside of the code, I would be free to act in anyway I wished even to the extent of changing or rewriting the code on a whim. The only limitations I would have would be my will and my nature.
geekbert 24-Oct-2008 04:01
If the god were not physical (or existed in a realm beyond what we understand as the physical universe, then it would seem not.

I wouldn't imagine he would be limited by the laws of physics any more than I would have to live within the parameters I set in software code I might write. I exist outside of the code but may interact with it. Existing outside of the code, I would be free to act in anyway I wished even to the extent of changing or rewriting the code on a whim. The only limitations I would have would be my will and my nature.
Richard Haden 23-Oct-2008 22:32
Einstein wondered if a god would have to stick to his / her / it's own laws...of physics?
Richard Haden 22-Oct-2008 19:17
Geekbert, Thank you for interpreting my earlier text. I think you did a pretty good job.
the Jose Smith or Joe the plumbers and others were good at compilation, Huh...as Theophilus was an honorary title and not really a known person...Luke is also a perpetrator of fiction. John's assertion is just as full of shit as the rest of the apostrophe or (...) and old faithful Peter...what a liar he is...You can see that I am easy to figure out. All you got to do is offer up a biblical saying and chances are that I am the antithesis...the devils advocate as it were. All though I don't believe in the devil either...

You need not think you are breaking down my arguments for I do not have any other than to say that organized religion is just that. Organized farse. Perhaps, it was once just merely allegory--but somewhere along the way it became big business and a good way to get a population to follow each other blindly off the edifice of reason. Mohammed organized the Arabs / bedouins tribes into a fighting machine. And early non Muslims organized you christians in to idiots that will work for minimum wage...the peons who tend to the Wallmarts of the world. The peddlers of cheap goods and false ways of living...

The 10 commandments for instance are not an old testament brain fart...as you shall not steal meant don't take my
slave. Do not covet thy neighbors wife treats the wife as property...and so it goes with all the loons who continue with out dated fiction.

I have had a wife or two covet me before. It was usually because she and her husband were split up or the husband did not care or it was just, simply, her choice. Now the bible doesn't apply to the real world...as far as women's liberation...except if you consider the Eve character to be the first feminist...she wanted to know the forbidden knowledge that some old hippi did not want her to have...

I am sure that you will argue from a moral majority background but as you must know it only makes me laugh at your simplicity....You might want to stop acting like you know about a world out side of your biblical one, though, you read very studid...not as the scholar, but as one who wants it al to conveniently fit into a little black book.
Richard Haden 22-Oct-2008 18:08
Geekbert, witnessing is part of the script. What all your witnesses share is a common delusion or other wise they are part of the profiting that is the commerce of organized religion. Jesus and his 12 side kicks were low brow sophist, at best, and yes, their text are derivative of earlier text.

Christianity breeds people like Gov. Palin, that ignorant prom queen who has come to stand for what is wrong with right wing christian thought...she explains very clearly how many American cities and states are not American if we do not believe her and McCain's crap.

Yes, Christianity produces inbred thought, ignorance, and fundamental retardedness. If you wish to live that way who am I to other wise.

...on the seventh day all the church goers are off the street for an hour or so at least. Thats a small relief, huh.

References to the bible are so lame. Why don't you look at why people need to believe instead of trying to make christianity some actual fact of life.
Larry Castle (geekbert) 22-Oct-2008 13:57
PART 1
Richard, again I must point out that you try to minimize your task of dismissing Christian claims by saying, "Most all novels, as well as the Goldylox story, santa Clause myth, Jesus's myth and legend, and so on are stories. These stories are teaching tools. They were not designed to be taken literally." You speak of these writings as though they are the result of Joseph Smith sitting down and penning a bad nock-off of some other holy book and then concocting a smooth story to explain how he came across it. You fail to recognize the statements throughout the writings (which originate over the course of about 1500 years from some 40 different authors).

In reality, a simple reading by any English speaking person would demonstrate the error in your statement and be forced to at least evaluate it's claims for itself. He would read Luke's statement:

"Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus, so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught."

Then John's assertion:
"This disciple is the one who testifies to these events and has recorded them here. And we know that his account of these things is accurate"

And Peter's testimony:
"We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For we were not making up clever stories when we told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We saw his majestic splendor with our own eyes."

Can I try to break down the rest of your post to make sure I understand you?
YOUR STATEMENT: "Even Einstein believed that there was some sort of power to the universe that could eventually be known commensurate with human evolving knowledge. Not beyond as the ignorant christians think."
TRANSLATION: "Sure we can know it. I'll tell you when and how, not the other way around."

YOUR STATEMENT: "But as cause and effect to the cycles of big bang's exploding/imploding revolutions, their must be tautologically and not necessarily a teleological conclusion...That all matter has always been and always will be...to presume we know anything beyond that is nonsense"
TRANSLATION: "I'll set the presuppositions here, and when you question the rationality of any of them, I'll posit new versions of them to compensate. After all, I'm not tied down to any one view like you plebes and your book."

YOUR STATEMENT: "Geekbert, I suggest you move on, into more interesting studies of Cultural theories, that is where you might find, what was once humanist territories, now more interesting as reformed cultural theories. The cause and effect of the universe will keep you spinning your wheels as every one else enjoys living in the real world of the wonder."
TRANSLATION: "Like I said, there are answers to these questions but I am certain they have not been discovered yet. I have faith that they will be and that I'll know them when they are. Even though they are as yet unknown I do know that your proposed answers will not be what we discover as true. Besides, you should leave these hard questions to smart people like me. Everyone knows that people who believe as you do are backwards inbreeders who form militia groups in America's fly-over country."
Larry Castle (geekbert) 22-Oct-2008 13:57
PART 2
I would suggest you be a little more open minded. You might consider that, while you believe "the truth is out there," I believe it's been revealed and I'm busy living in view of it. Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." By the way, the context of that statement (John 10) is very relevant to this topic.

I've said before and I say again, I live in a metro area where the product of the worldview you recommend is displayed every night on the evening news. That does not invalidate your worldview but if you want to evaluate worldviews on a pragmatic basis ("spinning your wheels as every one else enjoys living in the real world"), it certainly demonstrates it's flaws in that respect.

You accuse the builder of the ark replica of propagating a scam. The biggest scam the world has seen is the global push to convince the next generation that while we are animals, we should act like gods. Our culture spirals downward as we ask the next generation to shed the confining presuppositions underpinning civilization while still holding the essential mores "because I say so." It does not work. People don't buy that condescending crap. My children stand out as remarkable among their peers in elementary school. Their teachers can't compliment them enough. One recommended my wife and I write a book on parenting. Let me tell you a secret. Please don't tell their teachers. We're not that great at parenting. We don't have all the answers. Our kids are precious to us but otherwise they're of average intelligence and disposition as their peers. So what makes them stand out? I submit to you that the primary difference is the worldview they have been taught. They do not believe that they are mere animals. They believe they were created in God's image and that His opinion of them matters more than any other opinion. We can argue for ages about who's views hold more epistemological water, but if you want to go toe-to-toe on who's works better you're gonna loose.

I don't say this to brag about how great I am. I readily admit that only God's grace causes me to differ from anyone who takes the opposing view(s). I can't take credit. That bothers you, doesn't it? You immediately think something like "then that also elevates you of responsibility for your wrong-doing." Not so, on the whole, this view allows me to recognize my wrong-doing and to turn from it. Well, now I'm getting preachy and pushing my morality on you. I wouldn't want to do that.
Richard Haden 22-Oct-2008 04:38
Most all novels, as well as the Goldylox story, santa Clause myth, Jesus's myth and legend, and so on are stories. These stories are teaching tools. They were not designed to be taken literally. The bible is a collection of allegories...stories derived from older stories. But penned by man, not words from god. I don't have a problem with a higher power, a lower power, an inept power or any power for that matter. I dismiss the god of Christianity cultism, old testament cultism or any organized cult that represents a manifestation of something beyond the knowable. For one of these centuries we may know the unknown but until then a corporate icon god for social control is not for me or any one with any witt to follow. It is a ridiculous thing to follow.

Even Einstein believed that there was some sort of power to the universe that could eventually be known commensurate with human evolving knowledge. Not beyond as the ignorant christians think. But as cause and effect to the cycles of big bang's exploding/imploding revolutions, their must be tautologically and not necessarily a teleological conclusion...That all matter has always been and always will be...to presume we know anything beyond that is nonsense.

Geekbert, I suggest you move on, into more interesting studies of Cultural theories, that is where you might find, what was once humanist territories, now more interesting as reformed cultural theories. The cause and effect of the universe will keep you spinning your wheels as every one else enjoys living in the real world of the wonder.
Larry Castle (geekbert) 22-Oct-2008 02:51
Interesting; although there are new comments in the main page, mine will not post.

Richard, you said, "The universe that has no beginning or end...When you take time out of the equation then it gets a lot easier." However, if you take time out of the equation, you are forced to posit a god (or god substitute) that not only got the ball rolling but one that also interferes regularly in the process. If the physical universe is eternal, it requires outside interference to avoid heat death. Also, I'm not sure how you can know it will have no end.

Again, you acknowledge the necessity of a "higher power" but disallow the possibility that the "higher power" is knowable. Why not? I would argue that the only way for us to know this higher power, if it exists beyond our senses, would be for it to reveal itself to us. The question then would be, "To where would you turn to verify the story of the ultimate authority?" Who is going to vouch for God's veracity besides God Himself?

Citing the Goldilocks story as a viable analogy to Christianity is about as tenable as Jelpy's Santa analogy. If you can refer me to widely accepted evidence that would be worthy of consideration that says the Goldilocks in the stories is real, then I would have to consider it. When you have those works, let us know.

These kind of simplistic dismissals of the most well attested ancient documents known to man (religious or not) plays well to those with no understanding of their background. Please note, I understand that authenticity does not equal authority; however, you have greatly minimized your task by trying to dismiss authority via dismissing authenticity (and using a straw man version of it at that). A better analogy would be to compare Christianity's foundational documents to some other well attested holy books. The problem you will have is that there are no close comparisons.

To restate the issue, you seem to not have a problem with the concept of God. You have a problem with a God that acts like He really made the universe and does whatever He wants with it like the one described in the Christian scriptures.
Richard Haden 22-Oct-2008 01:31
After reading Waynew's current posting, I am starting to better understand why Romans enjoyed tossing Waynew's Christain Breatheren to the the Lions...Their crap must have tasted good to carniverous cats
Richard Haden 21-Oct-2008 21:45
Try reading Kant and his "Priori" about the beginning of knowledge. As far as God goes, I don't think you get the (basic) point. The god as you describe him is your god, as you want him to be...The bible has nothing to do with God...it is a text that exist in this world--it is penned by man. I do not have to prove the Bible right or wrong as I do not have to prove Goldy lox and the three bears...both are fiction with a story to teach with.

The existence of a higher power is not in dispute. What is in dispute is how you and other religious people seem to claim it is this or that way...our way or hells way... I say that We are all part of what ever jump started the universe. The universe that has no beginning or end...When you take time out of the equation then it gets a lot easier
geekbert 21-Oct-2008 03:59
Since the ark site's comments are off, I'll respond to your question here. First, I have to point out that your insistence on an extra-biblical proof is not demanded by logic. It is demanded by you, and that's fine. But let's be accurate.

You said, "You can't use your hole-y bible scriptures to prove biblegod, just like Hindus can't use their Hindu religious texts to prove Krishna, etc. THIS IS CIRCULAR FALLACY!!"

Please explain how anyone's fundamental presuppositions can be proven. One's foundational presupposition by it's very nature must be self-authenticating. For example, if my foundational presupposition is that I can understand the world through logic and reason, then I cannot use logic and reason to prove that my presupposition is correct. That would be a "CIRCULAR FALLACY" as you call it.

All reasoning is circular when traced to it's foundational presuppositions. I don't raise this as some proof of my own presuppositions. I don't think I can prove them as such; I assume them to be true and proceed to prove everything else from them. I simply point this out to show that circularity does not, in and of itself, disprove anything. One's use of logic is a self-authenticating method. That does not make logic illegitimate.

With that in mind, I would ask you to consider that the Bible teaches that there are 2 types of people in this world, those who profess the truth of God's existence and those who suppress the truth of God's existence. The options of 'seeking' God, or not believing in God are unavailable. The Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God as it declares that the existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for not believing in Him.

Romans 1 vs. 18 - 21 says:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you would like an extra-biblical proof of God's existence, I would offer the transcendental proof of God's existence. Concisely stated, it says:

Only in a universe governed by God can universal, immaterial, unchanging laws exist. Only in a universe governed by God can rational thinking be possible. We use rational thinking to prove things. Therefore the proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

Note that the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not prove things. The argument is that you must borrow from the Christian worldview, and a God who makes universal, immaterial, unchanging laws possible in order to prove anything. In logic, this type of proof is called 'transcendental logic,' or 'the impossibility of the contrary,' where God is the basis for any rational thought. Only the Christian worldview can logically support rationality.

Denying the existence of God is not unbelief but an exercise in self-deception. You may know things, but you cannot account for anything you know. Arguing against God's existence would be on par with arguing against the existence of air, breathing it all the while. You use the universal, immaterial, unchanging laws of logic, mathematics, science, and absolute morality (though you might refuse to acknowledge this one) in order to come to rational decisions, but you cannot account for them. These laws are not the only way God has revealed himself to you, but they are sufficient to show the irrationality of your thinking, and expose your guilt for denying Him.
richard Haden 18-Oct-2008 07:49
Looks like the arc site was functioning for a moment.
Richard Haden 16-Oct-2008 21:03
Jelpy,
Did the spammer kill the ARK site with his reposting moronic wit?
if you find the time to let me know I would appreciate it. richard_haden at yahoo dot com . I enjoyed the unfortunate reminder that people still believe in Floating ARKs. That is one hell of a themomator of how unhealthy contemporary america is. Not to mention the idiot in Holland.

AsBestUs
Richard Haden

www(dot)richardhaden(dot)com
also a guest writer for ARTLURKER. www(dot)artlurker(dot)com/
Leigh Dvarishkis 03-Oct-2008 17:09
I feel for you. You are bitter. Religion can do terrible things if used for "control," or it can be liberating. Many humans have "used it" but that doesn't change God. I know so many analitical minds who refuse religion so they are not "fooled" as they carry their volumes of scientific documentation only to be bitter, sad, and without hope. I also know others with volumes of education, documentation, and scientific minds who say there's no way this world is a process of random chance but rather the work of God. The latter ones accept life as it is and with God's blessing. Your trust in man (and his evidence) is as scarry as your lack of trust in God. Jesus understood man, we do not understand Him but his strength gives us hope and peace. Good reading - "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell - you can get a copy on Amazon. I pray you find peace amongst hypocrits (in religion and out of religion). God is not the hypocrit.
Debbie 30-Sep-2008 05:06
Deuteronomy is what book this below passages came from....
Debbie 30-Sep-2008 05:05
32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

you can go to several different websites...www.o-bible.com....www.biblegateway.com they are free and you can read all you want of the GOOD BOOK....In Jesus' name....I love you!
Debbie 30-Sep-2008 04:23
May God Bless You and Your Family! All you need to do is pray.
Debbie 30-Sep-2008 04:22
Let's pray for God forgiveness.
Dear Father,
I pray for this lost soul. He needs you in his life. He needs you to show him the way. Dear Jesus, please come into this person's life show them the way back to your love and guidance. Let him see that he will not be alone in this journey into your life. He really needs your help in getting what he lost back. I pray to you Jesus' he needs you. His family needs you to help guide him back to the road to heaven. In Jesus' name I pray. AMEN!
Sampie 22-Sep-2008 15:34
Humanism says everybody has the right to do what they want. If that is true what prevents your neighbor from killing you?? He then also has the right to do what he wants. It is humans that cause all the misary on earth. Not God.
God made the earth beautiful, but it is people that destroy it through their actions.
God is a person of love not hate. That is why he send his only Son to die for our sins.

May God bless you.
shannon 22-Sep-2008 15:30
Jelpy,
Yes, the word of God did say God so loved the world....(but you left off the rest of the verse) John 3:16 states: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life." This was done for all of us because God knew that we were so sinful we could not do it on our own. So he sent himself in human form to take the sins of the world away by Jesus' crucifixtion, burial and ressurection. It is our chose to accept Jesus or not. God sent him, we chose to accept or not. That is what makes us go to hell (not choosing Jesus) not GOD making us go to hell. The truth will set you free if you just read God's word(The Bible). He will speak to you through it. I use to be as angry as you and it got me no place and that is just what the devi wants us to do(be on his side). Satan comes to kill,and destroy in any way he can. Only when I Truly accepted Christ for what he did for my sins alnog with risisting the devil through prayer, then true knowledge and understanding began. If you need a visual watch the Passion of Christ. May he bless you abundantly, Shannnon from Texas.
Arthur T. Constantine 19-Sep-2008 03:55
Believe what you want and it only shows what you are and let others make up their own mind. The bitter are always negative and the believers are always the happiest. Having traveled the world over pertty much and this is what I have witnessed. When we meet our maker that's when we learn everything.
Guest 17-Sep-2008 19:49
Well it is the grace of God that is keeping you alive right now